Hard vs Unfair

from Sins Forums

I'm sure that this is discussed somewhere, but I did not see it anywhere.

 

My roomate and I dig this game and we typically play over the lan against AI.  We made our way up the ladder in the difficulty scale but when we got to unfair, it seemed.... well.... unfair =p

So the question is: do you folks typically play on hard and just add more hard AI players if you need to make it harder?  Or do my roomate and I just need to buck up and learn to play better? ;)

19,977 views 18 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
I play on unfair vs 10 AI on huge multi star and limit myself to no research and no diplomacy.

I then tie right hand behind my back and move the mouse around with my face to give myself a 'slight' challenge.

After 30 minutes I then blindfold myself and have my friend randomly punch me in the face.

That's how a real man plays Sins.
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
Unfair is very tricky early on because of their resource advantage. As the game progresses, the resource advantage thins out and it's not "as" unfair. The main obstacle I find with it is outbidding pirate raids in the beginning and matching fleets. It's not uncommon for me to see Unfair AI fleets with a capital and 30 frigates by the time I can only afford 10-15 ;)
Galactic Civilizations IV
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top
i understand where your coming from on this point i mainly play wit my friends over lans but any way when facing hards they have everthing the same as you do just better ai where as vs unfair have larger starting resource best way to deal with them is play alot of cat and mouse until you get strong foot hold
Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top
Well, call me a purist and an idealist, but I absolutely refuse, out of principle, to fight an A.I. that is only better because it gets bonuses and cheats.

I might be wrong, but I'm under the impression that the 1.04 Hard A.I. represents the top level of "intelligence", whereas the Unfair A.I. merely is the hard one plus bonuses.

I'm not a masochist, and my leisure time is limited.

I'm willing to match my RTS intelligence against the intelligence of the human programmers who coded the Hard A.I., but I won't waste time and sweat just because the human programmers gifted themselves (through their A.I. surrogates) with non-intelligent bonuses.

I never use "cheat-codes" when I play PC games : it would insult my pride of being able to win by fair-play.

Unless someone from Ironclad tells me that the Unfair A.I. is in some respects smarter than the Hard A.I., I won't waste my time trying to beat cheaters.
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
As far as I know, the only thing Unfair has is the resource advantage. A lot of people wanted a bit more of a challenge, and this is the only "cheat" for the AI currently present.
Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top
And this is where you get the chance to let your strategic mind shine :D. For me tone of the things that works against unfair AI is to go find choke points early and focus on colonizing /fortifying them BEFORE I focus on the planets inbetween. This can be a real gamble though and results can be quite interesting/fun
Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top
Well, call me a purist and an idealist, but I absolutely refuse, out of principle, to fight an A.I. that is only better because it gets bonuses and cheats.I might be wrong, but I'm under the impression that the 1.04 Hard A.I. represents the top level of "intelligence", whereas the Unfair A.I. merely is the hard one plus bonuses.I'm not a masochist, and my leisure time is limited. I'm willing to match my RTS intelligence against the intelligence of the human programmers who coded the Hard A.I., but I won't waste time and sweat just because the human programmers gifted themselves (through their A.I. surrogates) with non-intelligent bonuses. I never use "cheat-codes" when I play PC games : it would insult my pride of being able to win by fair-play.Unless someone from Ironclad tells me that the Unfair A.I. is in some respects smarter than the Hard A.I., I won't waste my time trying to beat cheaters.
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Yes, but if you can beat that A.I. with that slight advantage then you prove to yourself that you are smarter than that A.I. It's like a handicap for a player, if you can beat him even with him having the advantage then you are obviously a true RTS player or a tricky S.O.B.,depends on how you look at it.

I play against unfair all the time, why? Because I know that it'll make my gaming experience better because it'll be a challenge to me. Really and truely I can't see how a few extra resources will make a difference, if you truely were a RTS gamer you'd be able to make up for this difference with skill, but hey if you can't beat the A.I. because it "cheats" at the beginning of the game then fine, but don't say its a waste of time or you won't fight cheaters. Really what your post sounds like is you can't beat the Unfair A.I. Just read the damn name "Unfair".
Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top
Do we know what Unfair gets? Is it a lump of resources or +20% resource rate?
Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top
AFAIK, it's a percentage increase to gathering, not sure if it's credits only or mines as well.
Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top
In real life combat there is only "Unfair". Think of it as you are the struggling rebellion against the mighty evil empire (hmm... that sounds familiar somehow...).

Really, having the AI get better resources to start with is not that big of a deal in the state of things. If you can overcome greater odds against you by starting as an underdog it would be more of an accomplishment. Now, if the AI were able to skip researching to get units, gets them cheaper or faster, or some other change in the rules, that would indeed be a cheating AI. That would probably be less fun to play against.
Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top
Do we know what Unfair gets? Is it a lump of resources or +20% resource rate?
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AFAIK it's +100% to both resource and money income. Nothing else.
Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top
It's kinda fun being the underdog, and makes sense if you're the Advent taking on the TEC empire (who are supposed to be the specialists at resources)

And it keeps the battle being a challenge for far longer. (once you reach the 3/4 mark with a hard AI you know you've got them beaten, it;s just a matter of finishing it. With Unfair they still got enough of an advantage to make a come back
Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top
Wow... I can't even beat the easy. I must really be bad.  (:(  Least it's still fun.
Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top
< 1 > if you truely were a RTS gamer you'd be able to make up for this difference with skill, but hey if you can't beat the A.I. because it "cheats" at the beginning of the game then fine,

< 2 > but don't say its a waste of time or you won't fight cheaters.

< 3 > Really what your post sounds like is you can't beat the Unfair A.I.

< 4 > Just read the damn name "Unfair".
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Reply 1 > I'm not a RTS expert, just an average gamer, with limited free time to practice.

Reply 2 > I was not stating that fighting the Unfair A.I. was a waste of time, in the abstract. I was implying, rather, that it might be a waste of my limited time. Like most people who bought the game, I have a lot of other time-consuming activities (a job, university research, a family, domestic chores, other games to play, etc.). I really don't have the time to practice to enhance my RTS skills to the point where I will be able to beat 7 Unfair A.I.s (like a clan expert recommended to me on another thread). I have other interests and ambitions in Life.

Reply 3 > I haven't even tried once. The point of my previous post is that I refuse, by principle, to spend hours being stressed just to beat a cheater.

Reply 4 > I do know how to read.

If they had given the A.I. some more "intelligence" besides the unfair bonuses, I would have been interested. If a 21-year old chess player beats his 3-year kid brother at chess, that is unfair, but it has nothing to do with cheating (if the older guy respects the rules of chess).

I don't mind an "unfair" level of skill in an adversary. I only object when the unfairness is linked to dumb bonuses and cheats.

I would not mind to learn by being defeated by an A.I. with an "unfair" level of intelligence and skill (just as the 3 year-old can learn from his older brother).

But I simply do not have enough free leisure-time to invest in learning how to compete with pure cheaters.
Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top
Reply 5 > I am a Vulcan and cannot process humor. Please do not attempt to reason with me as I am busy skinning my puppy for biofuel and shedding no tears.
Reply #18 from Stardock Forums Top
Well, call me a purist and an idealist, but I absolutely refuse, out of principle, to fight an A.I. that is only better because it gets bonuses and cheats.I might be wrong, but I'm under the impression that the 1.04 Hard A.I. represents the top level of "intelligence", whereas the Unfair A.I. merely is the hard one plus bonuses.I'm not a masochist, and my leisure time is limited. I'm willing to match my RTS intelligence against the intelligence of the human programmers who coded the Hard A.I., but I won't waste time and sweat just because the human programmers gifted themselves (through their A.I. surrogates) with non-intelligent bonuses. I never use "cheat-codes" when I play PC games : it would insult my pride of being able to win by fair-play.Unless someone from Ironclad tells me that the Unfair A.I. is in some respects smarter than the Hard A.I., I won't waste my time trying to beat cheaters.
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This is pretty much the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard out of a strategy gamer. Dude, you're a human being. You have intrinsic and massive bonuses over ANY AI EVER MADE. If you refuse to even try to defeat it, you're just a coward, pure and simple. It's like you're stacking the cards in your favor whenever you go out and play a game. Why not just play on Easy mode?

What are you going to do when the call from the President comes, "Mister CyberMage, please, we need you, aliens are invading, they are too strong for our best military minds, all our forces are at your real-time command!"

"No, I'm sorry, I can't do that, because I never practiced on Unfair level. I only play against inferior artificial intelligence with absolutely no bonus to make up for the fact that they always make the same mistakes, have literally no imagination or way to become smarter. I prefer to win every single game that I play in the easiest fashion possible because that's the most fun."

Ever heard of a challenging yourself? Dude, a MONKEY could beat the Unfair AI. This isn't chess, where the ways to win are extremely limited.