But who created the aliens?

Interesting you should bring up the difference between MACROevolution and MICROevolution. This is a key point that I think people are missing. Macroevolution adds the assumption that microevolution eventually amounts to speciation.

While I cannot think of a specific example off the top of my head of this happening (other than seedless fruits and other polyploidic events), I have no doubt that speciation has been observed on some level.

For those who will deny that without doing the research that I myself am too lazy to perform:

1) Fossil evolution through ground strata.
2) Embryological evidence
3) Molecular and mophological homologies
4) Seriously, do you still doubt it?

Plus, there's still the fact that it just makes logical sense. If offspring are different, eventually they will be very different. So, say a population is cleaved somehow pre- or post-zygotically. Eventually the offspring will be too different from the common ancestor to mate.

Mayans were 3 feet tall. Could a 3ft Mayan reproduce with Yao?

Do some reading on your own. I'm not going to get into it on an internet thread with you because I'm quite certain I know exactly how you're going to react.

No one created them, they just always existed outside of time (not that anything outside of time can not always exist). They used their advanced technology to insert themselves into our time stream, but lacking the reasoning capabilities we have developed to understand such things as cause and effect, they prompted crashed into that volcano the other poster was talking about.

So in other words... you can't answer this.
Go figure. Typical cop-out.

STILL doesn't answer the question.

COME ON! Give me an answer!

The trouble people go to, to NOT accept an intelligent designer.
To explain away the existance of God. I am sorry that God doesn't fit your explanation, for it is such a simple, believable answer.

How did life begin?

From the sound of it, it seems they are getting very close to creating life from scratch. Give them 10 or so years. Once this happens all of the nonbelievers will still be nonbelievers anyway, so no point in talking about it.

Just wait till we develop non-carbon based life forms, we are the the point where most of us are not in need for religion to explain to us what has happened and why things happen.

Hell, maybe eventually the human race could be called "god".

Exactly the type of thing I figured you'd come out with. Why would I waste my time and energy? You've obviously made up your mind about evolution, despite the amount of evidence supporting it and despite the fact that there is no other viable explanation that is supported by evidence. No matter what explanation/argument I bring up about the origins of life, it will be a wasted exercise to go on for post after post with you explaining, presenting hypotheses, or making a case as it will just be summarily ignored. So, call it a cop-out if you wish. Whatever makes you feel better.

If you're really interested in seeing what the current thinking is on the origins of life, then do as I suggest and try a little research/reading. If all you want is a long, drawn-out argument full of hyperbole and invective, then try fishing for that with someone else. I'm not interested.

Okay, one last post: In order to explain complexity, you're postulating the existence of something even more complex. That's neither simple nor believable.

THERE YA GO!
From SCRATCH? Explain to me just exactly WHAT they are going to use to create this life you are talking about? From scratch would have to be from stuff MAN has created on his own. They will not be able to use ANYTHING that is already here.

So.... tell me WHAT they are going to use "from SCRATCH"...

got 'cha again..

STILL NO ANSWER!

Did you give up your sense of humor with your reason? It is no trouble at all to "NOT accept an intelligent designer". Especially since I could have designed things much more intelligently. Anyone here need their appendix?

Not my post but I would guess stardust.

Who says that the appendix didnt' serve some purpose while you were in the womb? This is no answer. Just another cop-out explanation. And to say that YOU could design a better human... better get busy, but remember... it has to be from "scratch". No fair using stuff GOD created.

Still no answer.
See.. this proves my point... YOU evolutionists just CAN'T answer this question.

Sorry... already created. You have to start from NOTHING.

I'm not even going to try getting into this asinine stuff. More than anything else this thread demonstrates the utter failure of science education in North America. Science has no one to blame but itself for things like Expelled. Duty Calls, educators of America.

You asked how to create life. Not atoms in general. You must ask precise. Ask how did all this mass came to be?

How about this question? Why do we have to start from nothing, if there always WAS something? How do you know there was nothing? Wouldn't that mean there wasn't a god? What created god? But wait... God was always here.. hmmmm?

I'd like to worship a book written about stories told through generations, but I'll try to stick to what we do know.

Oh.. I forgot... you have a "consensus".
You have copped-out yet again.
I guess you also agree in man-made global warming as well. I lump them together because some think that those are "facts" as well.

WHO/WHAT created life? Simple question, for which you have NO answer... just a bunch of "evidence" based on consensus, not FACT.

Don't forget... I stated from the beginning that I can't prove my point of view either. All I can' say is... "God created it". That's as far as I can take it. You evolutionist cannot explain how life started at all. You take something that was already there... and "evolve" it into something else... it STILL doesn't explain how the stuff that was "already there" came to be.

The Space Shuttle... probably one of the most complex piece of machinery ever made (by man). To believe that we "just happened", be it from a bolt of lightning or the Big Bang... would be the same as saying that the Space Shuttle just happened... there was this big pile of parts laying around somewhere, and a big explosion threw all the parts together into a working Space Shuttle. Humans are a billion times more complex than the shuttle... so ... well, you tell me how we came about.

Wanna see a really cool perspective? I did some digging and came to someone who resembles my own viewpoint... the smartest man in the country, of course.

http://www.ctmu.org/

Who says it did? Appendix aside, I certainly would have made beings with good enough judgment to never have "fallen" in the first place.


First you'd have to prove God created it. Maybe it has always been here.


And you can't decide on a question.


Answer1: Ok, quarks.

Answer2:
Why? Who says everything can't spontaneously come into being without a creator. You see, for something to be created, it must have had a time when it did not exist, at very least in its current form/shape. If time began at the moment of the big bang, then nothing before or at that moment needed a cause, because there is nothing before that moment. If something exists outside of time, then it really can't be a creator, as a creator interacts with something to change its configuration (or possibly produce something new). Change and production are temporal concepts.



The problem here is IDers are trying to define a first cause when one is not needed. If the first cause needs no cause, why does the first event? God is not the simplest answer, Zen is.

Intellegent Design is NOT science. It is creationism. I have no problem with people believing in a higher power, just dont try to tell me it should be in a science class. It is religion!

The watchmaker argument is one of the worst there is. For one, though statistically improbable (almost impossible), it is very remotely possible for that watch/shuttle to happen given a big enough pile of parts and enough explosions. Granted, the likelihood of that happening in the entire lifetime of the universe is probably 1 in google-plex to the google-plex power times two. The other much easier and obvious way to discredit such an argument is to simple point out that shuttles and watches do not self-replicate, and therefore cannot evolve from simpler things and are not subject to survival pressures. Basic reasoning indicates that things with the ability to self-replicate and the ability to survive long enough to do so will multiply while things that cannot do these things will decrease overtime or at best stay constant barring the fluke occurrences of shuttles and watches.

Yeah, and that Holocaust thing. Man, there's no facts on that. Typical lib'ral ivory tower "science" BS, right?



You're an idiot if you think evolution or abiogenesis in any way resembles a space shuttle getting hit with lightning. You are also an idiot if you think there was a consensus in the 1400s that the world was flat, as that's a myth that would get you laughed out of the room by History 101 students. Idiots aren't worth arguing with or educating. Read a book, preferably one without Sean Hannity on the cover. People like Sibilantae and Legerdemain have had the will to learn more about this subject, but you do not and I'm not interested in extending the formality of educating you nicely. Stop posting.

OK, I am a hard core christian

I also want to be a physist, I belive that sience and REAL religion mesh perfectly.

That said, I belive christianity is not a science. Very definition of science is that it is observable. My intire belief system is based off of that my god can niether be proven to exist, or proven to not exist.

If God where to be proven to exist, it would have the same impact on my beliefs as proving that god doesn't exist.

That said, I also belive that evolution is not a science eather. I do belive that species can change over time, but I belive that they can not become new specis, for reasons I do not wish to discuss here. If anyone wishes to discuss this more in depth, then PM me.

they want to teach creative design, or christianity, fine, just DON'T call it a science

they want to teach evolution, also just fine, just DON'T call it a science. (like they do currently)


Note: Compelling evidence is not proof.

I am still trying to wrap my arms around such a ridiculous answer.


My question has been the same... How did life begin?


We are back to square one... who/what created the quark?



Please answer my "Space Shuttle" analogy. My answer is that someone had to DESIGN and create the shuttle. It just didn't "evolve" from a bunch of parts laying around.
Again, I cannot explain how God came to be. That is beyond anyone's comprehension. That is something that we will never be able to explain or comprehend. Some things we just have to accept. Just because we can't explain it "scientifically" doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Can you tell me exactly WHY mixing the right proportions of hydrogen and oxygen together makes water? Why does it always make water.. why hasn't that "evolved" into making something different?
As far as the Big Bang answer... just how did the laws of physics come to be to even allow that explosion... and SOMETHING had to explode. Someone had to design even the laws of physics.

There is a species of frogs that live in an area without water. They survive because they have the ability to lay the eggs and use their legs to move the eggs into a moist pocket on the females back. Without the moisture, the eggs would dry up and die, never being able to go from tadpole to frog. The evolutionist explain it this way: The water dried up, and the frogs adapted over time... they adapted (evolved) the moist sac and the ability to move the eggs to that sac. Makes sense, huh? EXCEPT.. how did the species survive the million or so years to evolve into this new species without the water to keep the eggs viable? They would have died out after the next generation eggs shriveled up. Simple answer... they were CREATED that way. They would NOT have survived the evolution process.

Evolution is so full of holes; it is unbelievable that so many people think it makes perfect sense.

I still have NO answer to that simple question... how did life start?
Maybe I should check back in a million years or so, to give the evolution folks time to think of an answer. But fortunatley, I won't be around then. I will be with the creator Himself, and will be able to understand HIS answer.

AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

This guy's got to be a troll, this is pretty entertaining.