A few thoughts on balance and strategic options

from Sins Forums
I’ve been playing the game a lot the last few weeks and really enjoyed it, but there seem to be a few issues in balance that make the game less strategic than it could be.

First, it seems that no one uses flack and carriers because they are so abysmally weak. The game is spam long range frigates unless you are spamming heavy cruisers. Making flack a stronger, better counter to lrms and a bit weaker against carriers would provide more viable options. Making fighters and bombers better all around , so they become a real option as well would add another layer of strategy. Doing these two things also would make light frigates have a larger roll as everyone wouldn’t be using hard counters to them by default (lrms and hcs).

Second, support cruisers need a reexamination. Subverters might be a bit too strong -- maybe a cap on distortion field? Guardians are broken (though sometimes amusing). Repulse is just silly good and uses next to no antimatter. TEC cruisers… well they are useful but not even close to the other races support cruisers.

Finally, super weapons might be a bit too hard to get to. At least I’ve never seen any of them used even in 3v3. One side is dead well before anyone could tech to them. Maybe making them cheaper would add another dimension to the game.

PS Anyone else think illuminators are a bit too much better than the other lrms? It seems you're better off either doing a really fast rush before they are produced or going straight to hcs against them.
strategy
4,474 views 7 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
Refering to your super weopon I currently have in my game roughly 5 of those TEC cannons that blow the living shit out of anything that moves. Well i've been saving my allies by keeping my enemy busy recolonizing his planets. I'll fire 2-3 rounds at a plannet then 2-3 more at a different one. So hes constantly rebuilding. Super weopons can't be cheap otherwise everyone will use them and then they aren't so super, but just normal.
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
heartily agree with the OP. In one point oh three I often used carriers to wipe long range frig spam, but as mentioned they are just too weak and too easily countered by flak in one point oh four to be a viable counter now. The result is once again the predominance of long range spam.

Were repulse to only affect its AOE, and were it to have a more significant AM drain (currently, if well microed, it will last forever without draining), it would still be a powerful but REASONABLE weapon. The current implementation is so overpowered it is ridiculous.

I think for any devs reading this it is important to point out the following:
Repulse appears to be working fine if you use it AS IT WAS DESIGNED. i.e. if you click the repulse icon and let it drain... However, if you rapidly click/unclick the repulse button several times you will literally CATAPULT enemy ships out of the grav well... i am guessing this is not meant to happen, and i am guessing the devs did not anticipate people would rapid-fire click/unclick the repulse button :p

Repulse, along with distortion field (as has been mentioned many-a-time in many-a-post) are by far the two most overpowered abilities right now.

Regarding illuminators, I would point out that since they require an additional lab, more expensive research, and are more expensive in general than other long range frigs, they SHOULD be more powerful than the other long range frigs. Whether their current implementation is TOO powerful... if carriers were a viable counter would they still seem too powerful?
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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top
I have to disagree with your assement of Carriers and Flak. 4 Sovas at lvl 4 or better is a VERY nasty taskforce to see hop into your system. Why? because even with just lvl 2 embargo, the stack no longer works according to notes i read, cripples the economy on the target planet and gives a boost to your own production. Meanwhile, the 4 fighter squads and 8 bomber squads are running around blowing strategic items such as labs, mines, trade ports, etc. They are also good for softening up planetary defenses right before your main fleet hits.

As for the Flak Frigates: standard convention is for every 1 flak frigate, you can target 3 strike craft squadrons. So if you have 4 Flak frigates guarding your carriers, you can just run around the whole gravity well, while rebuilding your srike craft if they are destroyed and make a serious nuisance of yourself to the other player. You just have to remember that the 19 dmg is spread through 4 guns. So roughly each gun does 4-5 dmg. You have to be smart on how you place your flak frigates in order to have the maximum amount of guns firing. I find that if you rush 10 or more flak frigates into a light fleet of LRMS and light frigates, you can take out quite a few with little damage to your self because every frigate is blasting away at multiple targets with all guns.

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
I have to disagree with your assement of Carriers and Flak. 4 Sovas at lvl 4 or better is a VERY nasty taskforce to see hop into your system. Why? because even with just lvl 2 embargo, the stack no longer works according to notes i read, cripples the economy on the target planet and gives a boost to your own production. Meanwhile, the 4 fighter squads and 8 bomber squads are running around blowing strategic items such as labs, mines, trade ports, etc. They are also good for softening up planetary defenses right before your main fleet hits. As for the Flak Frigates: standard convention is for every 1 flak frigate, you can target 3 strike craft squadrons. So if you have 4 Flak frigates guarding your carriers, you can just run around the whole gravity well, while rebuilding your srike craft if they are destroyed and make a serious nuisance of yourself to the other player. You just have to remember that the 19 dmg is spread through 4 guns. So roughly each gun does 4-5 dmg. You have to be smart on how you place your flak frigates in order to have the maximum amount of guns firing. I find that if you rush 10 or more flak frigates into a light fleet of LRMS and light frigates, you can take out quite a few with little damage to your self because every frigate is blasting away at multiple targets with all guns.
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Jotan he is talking about carrier cruisers, not carrier capital ships...

Also he never said that flak had to be made stronger vs carriers, he said flak should be made a little LESS powerful vs carriers and a little MORE powerful vs long range frigs. If anything your discussion of flak backs up his argument.

What is more, how you get that flak are a good counter against "light frigates" is beyond me. Flak in one-point-oh-four do 25% damage against medium armor (which is what light frigates have) while light frigates do 125% damage against heavy armor (which is what flak has).

Finally, while it was true in one-point-oh-three that flak were a very nice counter against long range frigs, this is just not the case in one-point-oh-four. I mean, they do okay vs long range frigs, but currently both flak and long range frigs do 75% damage against eachother's armor types (heavy and light respectively). This puts them on more equal ground, with the edge going to long range frigs due to the usually higher dps.
Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top
Flaks actually have higher DPS, speed and hit points, usually for less supply. The trouble is that they have divided fire arcs and short range, so if you don't micro them, they'll lose. If, however, you move them on top of the LRF formation, they'll be able to use their guns in all directions, and should prevail.
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
Which fleet would you rather have 20 lrms or 20 flak? The 20 flack might win the fight but are nearly useless otherwise. The lrms are decent against everything and work well in a mixed fleet. Flack just aren't worth building except if your opponent for some odd reason goes strike craft.

The basis of my suggestions was thinking of ways to give the player more viable options. Right now I'll beat an opponent who goes flak or carriers fairly easily unless he/she is significantly better than I am. Then again players who are better than me are very unlikely to do this in the first place.

Nik00117 might be right about super weapons. I really don't have much experience with them.
Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top
Just to clarify flaks weakness is the short weapon range and spread out dps. They can't focus fire well and do low damage to structures and caps.