Using Culture, Research, or Economy to Win?

Seeking Strategic Advice

from Sins Forums
Hi,

I'm interested in finding effective strategies that focus on something other than military production.  This is a brainstorming thread about how to play the current game, not about balance.   I'm thinking primarily about an intense and competetive game format, where every strategic decision has a direct affect on the other player.  Specificaly a game such as a 1v1 on a medium map like say "Devil's Cauldron."


CULTURE VICTORY?
I read a post a little while ago, I can't remember where, where Frogboy mentioned that he has just won a game throughe extensive use of culture.   I was curious if Frogboy or somebody else could illuminate the mechanics of this.  I'm having trouble conceiving of tricks to use culture offensively.  I suppose if you researched the hell out of culture (most feasible for advent) it would be pretty powerful... but what kinds of tactics would it enable  to become a critical factor  in winning  a  game... What would a culture victory look like?


ECONOMIC VICTORY?
It seems possible  to focus on taking planets and mining the snot out of them to become an economic powerhouse.  This seems like it could translate into victory through extensive use of pirates.  But in order for the pirates to be used as a substantial offensive weapon the threat level needs to get pretty high and stay there.  If you're focusing on economy, winning the bounty should be no problem.  But since overkilling the bounty doesn't drive up the threat level, we would have to take other measures to raise the threat level.  This requires precise knowledge of how the threat level is determined.  I don't have that info, I'll make another post about.  

Any other ideas about how to use a behemoth economy to wreak havoc on an enemy?

I suppose another approach is to use your economic might buy up a bunch of metal and crystal and make the market a nightmare for the other player.


RESEARCH VICTORY?
This seems the least feasible.  Because research in itself is worth nothing.   You still have to wipe the other guy off the map.  I suppose this would be similar to the economic approach, except you might take fewer planets and rely on mining research to built up your economy.  Then you'de probably focus on static defense for those few planets, and then tech up to heavy cruisers.  Upgrade them to death and starting kickign some booty.  We're eseentially talking about turtling.  But this is slightly more feasible in this game than in others because the pirates can be helpful here.



Of course none of these are plans for success in themselves.  In a real game you'de have to mix and match and use bits from each column.  But it's useful to brainstorm about different tacitcs and what sort of power each of the areas can produce if unhampered. 

I guess the things i need help with the most is 1)  How to use culture so it is a big impact on the game.  2) how to use pirates so they have a big impact on the game.


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Reply #1 from Stardock Forums Top
I read a post a little while ago, I can't remember where, where Frogboy mentioned that he has just won a game throughe extensive use of culture.
End of quote


I remember this post. He didn't elaborate on it much but basically culture can buff your fleets, reduce allegiance of opposing planets (which, by extension, reduces the income of those planets and eventually 'destroys' them), prevent the enemy from taking over influenced planets that you don't control, and, if you're the advent, let you get a good look at what's going on with planets that you don't control.

In reality, culture is a support mechanic. While you technically 'can' win games using it as your main offense, this will only really happen if you've already outplayed your opponent or you're just screwing around with the AI. That's not to say that the above buffs aren't useful but they aren't strong enough to win most games by themselves (in a reasonable amount of time, at least).

But in order for the pirates to be used as a substantial offensive weapon the threat level needs to get pretty high and stay there.
End of quote


If pirates are going to be a driving offensive force, their impact needs to be heavily increased. As it stands now, any level of pirate threat (even Severe) can be turned back with roughly 4 turrets and 2 repair bays. Beyond the first two attacks in a given game, I've never even bothered to pay attention to them once my border worlds had a couple of turrets up.

Anyway, I support what you're looking for and would love to see other viable alternatives to victory in this game but right now, the mechanics you're trying to exploit are only going to be an effective way to win against the AI or players who simply don't know what they're doing.

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
Only the Advent has an offensive element, to there culture, which is by use of there super weapon. Culture is more of a defensive support, unlike the offensive pirates. The defensive part, comes form the fact that 9 out of 10 times, the culture of the planet, that you are fighting over, is the one of the person that owns it. This means that 9 out of 10 times, the bounes is for the defending fleet. A 15% increase to damage or a 4% increase in shield mitigation does seem as much in a ship on ship battle, but will seem much more important, in a fleet on fleet batttle. 15% times 8 = 120%. which means, that if you are have 8 ships and you have the culture bonues on your side, that your fleet, is dealing as much damage, as if you had 9 ships.

To me, it does seem a little weak. I would like it, if it was more like 30% damage increase and 8% increase in shield mitigation, but that is just me.

I'm also with Sakhari with the pirates. They is to stop, give your capital ships, easy exp targets, and are a money sink. The one thing that I have noted, is that while there Siege Frigates, are easy to stop, by a few turrents, there HC and other supports, keep on attacking any trading and refinery ships, which do more damage over time, to your econ. , as it take longer for you to destory them, with only turrents. A few attaks against a trade port or a few ships, does not seem like much untill you look at the fact, that while your main fleet was off in battle, the pirates, where attacking shiping, for 30 min. Which can lead, to a major lose in income.

But in the end, for the money you put in, the pirates, did not do as much damage, as you would of liked, to your enemys, econ. If they had a better AI or some more firepower, like a capital ship, could fix this, but I real don't have an answer.

The main problem is, that CULTURE, RESEARCH, and ECONOMIC only support you on the macro level, and can not get you the same results, on the micro. If you get all research for damage, it almost adds up to 90% increase(30% times three weapons system), but I only capital ships use more then one weapon type.

I do like how the military culture, economic and reserach VICTORY are all tied together, but don't like how three out of the four, only seem to only support one. It should be more equal in my mind.
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