Getting beaten up by ~everyone~ on the playground...

from Sins Forums

NOOB strategy question...

I've had the game log enough to master the basics. I've restarted at least a dozen times, mainly playing the Advent in a single player, medium size random map. I understand at least the basic nuances of how to leverage the Advent -- I'm spreading culture as fast as I can, while maintaining a decent economy, a military that's ranked #2, and the most aggressive research I can. I've also been lucky to get a few maps that let me grow to 5-6 planets (etc.) with only 3 phase lane access points to protect. And the exact same thing keeps happening: I'll get pounded at one of those access points by huge fleets from multiple enemies, until I lose that space and they come pouring in.

The underlying problem regeards the game's diplomacy & the impossible missions I get. It's fairly early in the game, and I keep getting missions that are patently impossible: destroy civilian structures, for example, for a race that I haven't even located yet, when the only phase lanes to explore would take me through the territory of other races who refuse to sign cease fire agreements, much less planet vision agreements. Even when I manage to cultivate a decent diplomatic relationship early on, these relationships inevitably fold when I can't fulfill missions like this.

This would be a great game if it didn't always end the same way!

Any suggestions to counter this problem? TIA! Cheers...

strategy
5,724 views 14 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
Supporting your fleet is very important in the defense of your planets. Have you tried clustering repair bays and hangars together at choke planets? These can save your fleet and the AI has a real big problem dealing with them. For Advent this is especially helpful because of their 3 fighter/bomber hangars. The repair bays will keep your fleet alive and the repair bays alive nearly indefinitely while you develop everything else.

Hope this helps!
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
For the start it is best to play with locked teams. That way you will not receive any missions and the enemies will not team up. You can play 1v1v1v1v... or 2v2v2v.... or any team sizes you want. Later, to get some more challenge, you can go 3v5 or something like like.
Proposal for the next patch: Make locked teams the standard setup. The diplomacy system is so bad, there really is no need to show it off by making it the default setting. It's just annoying for people that don't realize right away that it can be turned off.

If you want to play with missions: The best strategy I could find is to get a lot of early scouts (at least 2, better 3-4) to see everyone. Then you form a fast "suicide strike team". I usually play Vasari and the Marauder capital ship is great for such a team. With advent you don't get such a speed capital ship but the first one should also do fine.
With that and some ships you just run around and jump through enemy controlled terretory (they can't catch you if you run fast!) and snipe their improvements. You will lose a few ships that way but it's worth it.
Concentrate only on the missions of 1-2 AIs that are close to you. As soon as you got them to ally with you you can go wipe out the others without all of them targeting you.
Multiplicity - Control multiple PCs using one keyboard and mouse
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
Some points. Note that these DO NOT APPLY to MP games, only single-player.
It's fairly early in the game, and I keep getting missions that are patently impossible: destroy civilian structures, for example, for a race that I haven't even located yet...
End of quote

You should pretty much know the galaxy before missions start coming in, unless you're playing a huge map. Very early on, build three or four scouts, give them an order to go to one of the adjoining unexplored planets, and then immediately right click their explore option so they'll go off on their own and map out the cluster for you. Good intelligence in early game is crucial, particularly on mid-sized maps.

Defense, as already mentioned, is key. Some people try and grow way too quickly which leads to a poorly defended empire. A planet that has a decent population and decent defense (regen bay and/or hangar + 10 turrets or so positioned halfway out and covering all phaselanes and planetary surface areas) is better for you than two planets with their civilian upgrades still leeching your cash away. Get three or four planets to start at maximum and then concentrate on hardening them with turrets and a hangar/regen bay. This will hold off the invading enemy enough to get your fleet there and defend it. Further, parking your defending fleet in the middle of a cluster of turrets dramatically increases your firepower.

Finally - missions. I do my best to satisfy all the earliest "give me stuff" missions because I never know what I'm going to get as a mission the next time. If the next request does turn out to be "destroy civ buildings" on a race that's a couple hops away, the race that gives me that mission is ignored becomes my enemy. If it's "destroy ships" or "give stuff", I'll do it. On a four-player map, getting JUST ONE FRIEND is more than enough to take enormous pressure off the player, particularly if that friend is nextdoor. So - do all the first and second missions that you can, and then find a friend and stick with them. Note: if the third mission from a friend comes in and it's a "give stuff", wait until the timer has almost expired. It'll be that much longer until they give you a fourth mission, and if that one turns out to be impossible, you've got that much longer until they break up with you and become the ex-girlfriend from hell. :)

-- Retro
Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top
Some excellent suggestions. Thank you.

I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking the diplomacy aspect of this game sucks. GV2 is vastly superior in that regard.

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
Some points. Note that these DO NOT APPLY to MP games, only single-player.
It's fairly early in the game, and I keep getting missions that are patently impossible: destroy civilian structures, for example, for a race that I haven't even located yet...You should pretty much know the galaxy before missions start coming in, unless you're playing a huge map. Very early on, build three or four scouts, give them an order to go to one of the adjoining unexplored planets, and then immediately right click their explore option so they'll go off on their own and map out the cluster for you. Good intelligence in early game is crucial, particularly on mid-sized maps.Defense, as already mentioned, is key. Some people try and grow way too quickly which leads to a poorly defended empire. A planet that has a decent population and decent defense (regen bay and/or hangar + 10 turrets or so positioned halfway out and covering all phaselanes and planetary surface areas) is better for you than two planets with their civilian upgrades still leeching your cash away. Get three or four planets to start at maximum and then concentrate on hardening them with turrets and a hangar/regen bay. This will hold off the invading enemy enough to get your fleet there and defend it. Further, parking your defending fleet in the middle of a cluster of turrets dramatically increases your firepower.Finally - missions. I do my best to satisfy all the earliest "give me stuff" missions because I never know what I'm going to get as a mission the next time. If the next request does turn out to be "destroy civ buildings" on a race that's a couple hops away, the race that gives me that mission is ignored becomes my enemy. If it's "destroy ships" or "give stuff", I'll do it. On a four-player map, getting JUST ONE FRIEND is more than enough to take enormous pressure off the player, particularly if that friend is nextdoor. So - do all the first and second missions that you can, and then find a friend and stick with them. Note: if the third mission from a friend comes in and it's a "give stuff", wait until the timer has almost expired. It'll be that much longer until they give you a fourth mission, and if that one turns out to be impossible, you've got that much longer until they break up with you and become the ex-girlfriend from hell. -- Retro
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i agree with every thing but the only time i ever get a 'destroy civ buildings' is when i am at war with the other race
Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top
guys cereal is good no lie
Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top
Retro:

In general I agree with the philosophy of your post, but I'm a little more cautious about fulfillinng the "give me stuff" resources until I'm in the top one or two positions in Economy. The reason for this is because I don't want to earn brownie points by giving up 1/2 or 2/3 of my early game purse, only to lose it because my next mission is to destroy structures/ships for a race in another system before I develop long-range jumps.

In my opinion, diplomacy is best to seek in the early midgame, when you have an economy that can sustain periodic tributes. In small games you should go for them as soon as possible (IMO); in medium-sized games it depends on your race. In larger games I don't bother with diplomacy until a player or two has been knocked out and I've expanded into their space: because at that point I know that my position is likely superior to that of my enemies. A few days ago I started an 8-man FFA with Hard AI's, and I haven't lost a ship in two game hours because I've been totally abusing the diplomacy to win.
Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top
Fair point, ganj. I'll tribute early when one of the requestors is a neighbour though, because you can expand FAST in the other direction when your back is covered.

-- Retro
Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top
I'm having a problem playing vs. 4 AI though. I can't diplomacy cuz I loose the achievment. I've worked myself up to 97% with a fella and just cuz I didn't have a cease fire with him he had the biggest fleet attacking me over and over. You'd think that if the guy wanted to be your friend he wouldn't attack you so much.
Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top
man this is why I play locked teams.
Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top
However, that means you're missing a lot of the complexity of Sins. I realize Sins' diplomacy model is rather primitive, but I really like how it makes me manage my overall team as an empire instead of just making it a big collection of gold mines, vespene gas and tiberium.

-- Retro
Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top
It'd be nice if diplomacy let you give ships to your allies. I'd limit it by race though.
Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top
You know, that's a durn good idea.

Actually, donating across races would work too if all power-ups on the transferred ships were disabled so all you got were the hulls. You'd still keep the armor, health and shield upgrades, but any special triggered abilities would not work. So things like the cielo cruiser or the subverter wouldn't be good, but a sudden infusion of TEC Cobalts could really help a guy out.

-- Retro