Eve Online

Eh... I'm not sure this will translate very well into Sins...

Eve is a very complex game with lots of backstory and everything. Changing some ship models won't make for a mod that does justice.

i would kill to be able to build a titan and dd a system

That on it self just spelled doom for this mod.

Do you plan to get permission from CCP Games first?

Do you need to get permission from LucasArts to make a Star Wars mod? Or ?Paramount? to do a Star Trek mod? In this case, an Eve mod would likely promote both games, so I don't see it would be a problem. I don't intend to use any of the CCP stuff besides the general idea of their ships.

It doesn't hurt to ask though, so I will.

Eh, the guys at CCP are nice, but they're not as laid-back as google. I don't think they'll mind, enless you start selling the models and everything. Titans should be avoided at all costs because of their sheer awesomeness and ultimate uselessness (Motherships and dreads would be much more efficient).



Although, I do recall when the source code was first leaked,,,

If you're going to do a mod solely yourself that's fine but really we don't need any more. Dilution of talent within the community means that everybody suffers and we end up with a bunch of dead mods.

Just the same, you should be aware that even if you do all the art from scratch, it's still a "derivative work" and you can be squished like a bug if the company that owns the property notices and decides to take action. At that point, Stardock and its allied companies would likely need to slap the mod down to keep them safe from legal retaliation.

For safety's sake, none of the many mods derivative of TV shows, movies or books should be approved for placement in Stardock's mod libraries, no matter how cool and well-intentioned they are.

I don't think they can be, afaik.

Gnord CCP is very protective, your mod DIES. This is also discounting various technical issues that have been discussed to death, search eve online. I was a proponent once.

None that include any [non-permissioned] copyrighted material are.

you do not need permission from most companies to make a mod. a mod in itself is basically a HUGE FREE AD. i believe the star wars mod doesn't have permission, because it doesn't really need it.

Kyle while that may be true for many other companies, CCP like I said is EXTREMELY protective and they have legal precedence for denying mods before.

I've tried to educate people about basic misconceptions like this one, but the power of wishful thinking is just too overwhelming to make a dent in it.

10 Big Myths about copyright explained

There is currently a EVE Online mod being made for Homeworld 2. The project lead for that mod had to get permission and CCP will only let him release it publicly after they approve the quality of the mod.
I don't know if thats just the way CCP themselves are or if thats just the way Icelander culture is in general to being very protective of creative property.

As long as no profits are being made, then there is no problem with it. Besides, CCP is getting sued by Lucas Arts for a possible copyright infringment.

I got a response:

Hi,

I would like, first of all, to thank you for your interest in our company and products as well as your enthusiasm for our game. We appreciate it greatly that you respect our games and rights as the copyright owner. As per my understanding, if you wish to do an EVE mod to the Sins of Solar Empire game by using names of things of EVE, we will not prohibit you from using the names as long as it is done within reason and does not infringe, represent, or misuse the items in a manner that is not respectful or interferes with the Company’s enjoyment of the rights. If you have any further copyright/trademark legal questions, I must suggest that you seek legal counsel, but if you have further inquiries concerning this matter, please do not hesitate to email me.”

Best regards,

Christian Danhill

Community Manager

CCP Games, EVE Online

I specifically asked to use information that can be found in evemon, and icon images that are obtainable from screenshots.

I promised not to use any files directly from the game, and I intend to keep that promise.

Still, I'm a programmer, not a graphics artist. I wouldn't mind some help.

Well you seemed to have proven that it can be done legally, but from the general response I can see from everyone I don't think they were too worried about the legal aspects. If I'm correct and I may not be, but I think there's just not too much of an interest in such a mod plus the resources for mods on SoaSE are stretched enough as it is.

Do as you will, but I figured I'd point that out.

Ste's right on two points. I don't think authorization to use names is authorization to use similar or exact-looking models or gameplay mechanics. Prior permission also means very little.

Second, he is correct in the resources statement as well. Look at how many IP mods there are right now. I will bet you 1000 internets that no more than one or two of them are going to end up being released. And if they do, more than likely they're going to be exactly the same as Sins gameplay with new names and mediocre models.

The truth of the matter is seeing "HEY GUYS WHAT ABOUT A *insert extreme-niche IP here* MOD" is getting tiresome, and even the major IP mods are likely not going to succeed. I have hopes for the SW mod and ST mod (as Evilejedi and Major Stress are well-experienced in this regard), but do I think the "90 pages of niche story discussion that won't matter when someone sits down and looks at what gameplay changes are possible" Halo mod or some of the other smaller projects are going to get off the ground? Those with talent need to stick together and get stuff done, and those with simple ideas need to be told that there are thousands of franchises out there. The community needs to figure out whether they want a bunch of dead mods or a few ones that proceed to release.

If you can find a modeler and a scripter, at _least_, I would proceed carefully with this project. If not, it's best not to waste the effort. The legal issues do not evaporate with that e-mail.

Legal issues aside, finishing a project is a simple matter of perseverance. I do not believe talented modders should necessarily abandon their own ideas and projects in favor of helping out with already existing mods for the sake of enhancing quality of said mods. I know plenty of single-man projects which exceeded, both in quality and inventiveness, stuff made by large teams. Oblivion mods are a fine example.

That said, it is to be expected to see a lot of "hey, let's make a _insert-franchize-name-here_ mod" suggestions early on, and even later in a game's life as new players pick it up and get ideas. Personally, I doubt these threads and discussions actually dilute talent in the modding community because for the most part they are just that - discussions. Serious modders take one look at the stuff being suggested and immediately know whether it can actually be done or not. So there is no time wasted in trying to do the impossible.

And yes - I would like to see more original stuff being made. For a sci-fi game, Star Trek and Star Wars mods are as inevitable as night and day, but I know there are folks out there who can actually grab the stuff tumbling inside their own heads and astonish the rest of us with their imagination. For some reason, such mods are quite rare, even though they allow the modders a far greater degree of freedom and creativity (and legal security) than mods based on well-established franchizes...

well it has a reason ppl suggest such things for mods. Those franchises are simply successfull ie ppl like them so why not have em in a game like Sins.
Personaly for example id also really like to see an EVE mod.

Anyways i think its better to copy something with good quality than to make something new with bad quality and creating your own "franchise" is not really an easy task.
Sins Mods like "Dawn of Victory" or "The Last Stand" are a rare exception, at least for now, cause a lot of ambitious projects who want to do all from scratch sadly die in the end or never get finished (and THIS does take its toll on the modding community).
So using existing franchises might limit a modder somehow but at least there is a real chance for the mod being finished.
There is nothing worse than building up expectations around a mod just to see it being abbonded.
I know its free work but modders have imo also some sort of responsibility for their mod.

Everything that everybody has said here is basically true.

It's a spare time project for me, so we'll see how far I get. Another reason I'm asking for help is that it's a lot easier to work WITH somebody on a project. So many mods don't get done because it's one person who burns themselves out doing the whole thing themself.

As for unique IP mods, yea, that sounds awesome until you end up designing an entirely new game that you can't sell. Using existing IP gets you past a lot of that "I need ideas and I'm a left brain programmer" part. As well as saves a lot of time, hopefully enough so you finish before you get bored and the next awesome game comes out.

By all means, having team members is useful in most cases, especially if you haven't got all the required skills or the time necessary to do it all yourself. Personally I prefer to work alone as that gives me the greatest possible degree of control in how the mod will look. As I am basically inventing everything myself, this is preferrable to having to explain every little minute detail to a team.

Though, when it comes to "burning out", that happens to teams as well. Whether you are going solo or as a team, perseverence and dedication to finishing what you started is crucial. As LinkesAuge said, nobody is paying us but that doesn't mean we don't have a sort of responsibility to the gamers waiting for our mod.

And when it comes to "can't sell it" clause, it does not mean making a unique, interesting and entertaining mod is a waste of time and effort. It is both an excersize and a chance to show the gaming community (and in the case your mod is really that good, the gaming industry) what you've got!

I would love to help, unfortunetly I have no coding or grafix skills, as for info hunting, if its within reason I can help with that.

Best of luck.
SSBN

PS: my eve name is ssbn732, eve mail me sometime.