Newb Question - Economy

from Sins Forums
I have just been trying to play the computer to get the hang of the game.  I usually try 1 computer player and have pirates active.  The game was really easy on the "Easy" setting, but now I have set it to Normal Random and can't even get past the first pirate raid.  It just seems like I cannot produce enough money and resources to overcome the initial 10 ship battle that comes within 10 and 20 minutes from the start of the game.  I must be missing something here.

If you work towards getting a lab before ships, then you have no defense when the pirates arrive.  If you build several frigs, you have no money or resources to do anything else.

Is there a general plan that people follow to build up before pirate raids?  Is it essential to pay off pirates at the start so they focus on your enemy and not on you?

This game looks sweet, but at this point I am stuck.

Thanks!
strategy
3,843 views 7 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
You need to build some turrets, essentially. They're big and tough. It's generally a pretty good idea to try and lure the enemy forces closer to the turrets with your local ships so they'll get chewed up as they attack you.

If you can time it so you outbid your opponent just before the first waves launch, you'll save yourself a lot of grief.

As for economy, before the first pirate wave triggers, you should have had sufficient time to build a capital ship and take over an asteroid. Here's a suggested starting build path for a 2-player game.
- Go to black market and buy 100 crystal.
- Upgrade your home planet's population.
- Build a capital ship bay, and build the capital ship that has the Colonize ability.
- Build your crystal mine
- Build a couple scouts and send them to find the closest asteroid planet
- Build your asteroid mines
- Send your capital ship and a couple frigates if you can to the asteroid, and after taking out the Krosov defender, colonize it
- As soon as possible, upgrade the asteroid's population so you don't lose credits every second. Build mines as soon as you can. Then put a couple turrets in orbit around your home planet and your asteroid, and keep playing.

-- Retro

-- Retro
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
I mostly agree with Retro's new-game philosophy, and would only suggest a small tweak - instead of building a colonizer capital ship, build a stronger warship, unless you're playing Advent. The Progenitor is pretty good, and its colonize ability makes planet upgrades cheaper for a while after you use it - very good for your first colonies. But for Vasari or TEC, I would suggest to build a battleship or dreadnought, and spend the extra bit of money for a colony ship. While any capital ship can handle the tiny defense forces of an asteroid, handling the initial pirate (and enemy player) raids is better suited to a tough, hard-hitting ship. Also, as early as you can afford it without stunting the rest of your empire, purchase the two upgrade levels, as capitals get MUCH stronger as they level up, VERY quickly, and injecting some cash into your capital ship for training pays dividends in the early game, as it gets:

Hit points
Armor
Better regeneration
Higher damage on ALL of its weapons
Additional ability points which improve attack or defense
Most likely a command point to let it field a squadron of strike craft for extra damage.

I find one battleship ideal for hammering early-game pirate raids into the ground. I also don't put bounty on enemy empires early on unless I know my battleship can't be around to defend, because those pirate raids will level up my battleship even higher - meaning my enemies are wasting money on bounty so -my- ship can get the XP from fighting the pirates.

Of course, adjust for your play style as you see fit!
The Political Machine 2024
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top
vs computer, i try to win the pirate bidding the first 3 times or so until i have a second cap ship (and some other defenses) i can park in the back to mop up the pirates. You want to save a nice 500 credits for the first raid, be the first to bid, and keep the pirates window open. Yes you ignore everything else short of the enemy attacking you to win the pirates bid the first few times.

Being the first to bid is key, bidding to 250 first will keep the pirates eye on that target until your bid goes above it. Matching a bid will not win, you have to go ahead.

dont be a victem, winning this bid is very very crucial. the AI usually back his forces down some to combat the pirates, letting you take a possible extra planet, or letting you build up your trade ports (instead of fleet) without worrying much of either pirates or AI attacking. AI loves to attack planets undefended while you are tied with with the pirates somewhere else. Until you get your basic economy and defenses up, you need to win those BIDS!!
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
You need to build some turrets, essentially. They're big and tough. It's generally a pretty good idea to try and lure the enemy forces closer to the turrets with your local ships so they'll get chewed up as they attack you.If you can time it so you outbid your opponent just before the first waves launch, you'll save yourself a lot of grief.As for economy, before the first pirate wave triggers, you should have had sufficient time to build a capital ship and take over an asteroid. Here's a suggested starting build path for a 2-player game.- Go to black market and buy 100 crystal.- Upgrade your home planet's population.- Build a capital ship bay, and build the capital ship that has the Colonize ability.- Build your crystal mine- Build a couple scouts and send them to find the closest asteroid planet- Build your asteroid mines- Send your capital ship and a couple frigates if you can to the asteroid, and after taking out the Krosov defender, colonize it- As soon as possible, upgrade the asteroid's population so you don't lose credits every second. Build mines as soon as you can. Then put a couple turrets in orbit around your home planet and your asteroid, and keep playing.-- Retro-- Retro
End of quote


Solid. but....

First upgrade of planet is nice 3 cred/sec income, but i prefer filling up my fleet with the light cruisers with my initial income. I like having colony cruiser for advent/tec because they can "steal" the neutral miners in the asteroid belts and gas giants. the .61 metal or crystal a sec is HUGE if you can rack up 2-5 early on, they will give you some extra trade income early and not force you to have to buy many resources if you can capture them. AI usually ignores them, this is the number 1 advantage you will have over AI at hard level!

The light cruiser fleet you build should be able to mop up the first asteroid and likely 1-2 planets nearby. Having overpowering frigates at the planets will mean smaller losses of fleet, faster colonizing (killing of neutrals) and higher defense early with no building of defenses. Getting yourself to 3-4 planets clean and colonized fast is more important than the 3 creds/sec income from the terrain planets pop cap income you get.


Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top
What I find is that when the Pirate raiders come it is important to manage the battle and focus in on their light cruisers. I Shift+click to chain a bunch of ships together. That way even if ships start moving around I can hit them later.

My first build tree involves 2-3 turrents 3 labs, 1 cap ship factory, 1 cap ship 6-9 light frigs, 2 scouts and 2 colony ships. Usually this goes up within the first 10-15 mins.
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
I also agree with Retro's way but if you are TEC i rather not have any scouts.

This is how i did it.

1) Build 10 Colbat Light Frigs.
2) Build a Cap ship factory as soon as you have enough credits.
3) Get the Capital Ship that can colonize.
4) Research some stuff.
5) Build up your fleet with more frigs if you can.
6) Fight off first pirate raid.
7) Then when their dead go out and fight.

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top
My first build tree involves 2-3 turrents 3 labs, 1 cap ship factory, 1 cap ship 6-9 light frigs, 2 scouts and 2 colony ships. Usually this goes up within the first 10-15 mins.
End of quote


I wouldnt make the 2-3 turrets at the start , because if you think about it theres nothing thats going to attack you . Turrets are a waste of metal which is vitally important in the early stages of colonisation. As for pirates, if you do want to defend with turrets you can actually get 3 turrets up at comfirmation of attack.