[MOD] Blackseraph's Tech Demo, Stage One: Ship Proliferation

from Sins Forums

List of releases:

List of known issues with version 0.1.0.1:

  • General:
    • Ship building isn't constrained by fleet cap.
    • Ship building doesn't cost resources.
    • Ship building isn't singularly queued. (You can build multiple types of ships at the same time from the same factory.)
  • Ships:
    • Destroyer, Assault: Penetrating Fire doesn't actually penetrate shields.
    • Frigate, Strike: False Radar Signatures is nonfunctional.
    • Frigate, Sweeper: Deflection Field does not make the ship immune to mines.
    • Shuttle, Colony: Conquer Planet is not being channeled.
    • Shuttle, Industrial: Production Efficiency: PlanetResourceOutput doesn't seem to do anything.
    • Shuttle, Industrial: Conquer Extractor is not being channeled.
    • Shuttle, Industrial: Conquer Extractor does not work on Psi or Phase extractors.
    • Shuttle, Miner: Deflection Field does not make the ship immune to mines.

List of edits to this post:

  • 5 Jun 2008: Initial post.  Included details of Corvette abilities.
  • 10 Jun 2008:  Added details of Shuttle abilities.
  • 15 Jun 2008:  Added details of Frigate abilities.
  • 17 Jun 2008:  Added the beginning of my balance discussion.  See https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/314219/page/1/#1770309 this post.
  • 22 Jun 2008:  Released v0.1.0.0 to the public.  Added the list of known issues.
  • 23 Jun 2008:  Added the download URL to v0.1.0.0 to the top of the post.
  • 28 Jun 2008:  Released v0.1.0.1 to the public.  This release contains only a small change that fixed module constructors.

Well, I'm far enough along in my modding escapades that I figured I'd announce my intentions to the world, and see what people thought.  When I first found out that Sins was a modable game, I immediately decided I must implement something.  I have a lot of ideas that I think would be pretty cool for a Sins mod, but I decided to start with a singular goal, and continue from there to see where my fancies take me.

I call this mod my tech demo because I'm planning on implementing solely gameplay changes at first.  If there's significant demand, I may actually go so far as to implement new models/textures/sounds/UI graphics, but for now, I'm using placeholders from standard Sins stuff.

The first stage of my tech demo is my ship proliferation.  Through some clever usage of the ability and buff system, I have created a way to have many more ships than the standard Sins game allows.  There are a few side-effects to my creative method of ship building, the most obvious one being that no ships cost any resources.  The day the devs implement abilities that cost resources is the day I can truly balance my proliferated mod.  The second side-effect that I've seen is that ship building doesn't queue nicely, since abilities don't queue.  Since abilities can be run side-by-side, you can build multiple different ship classes at the same time.

Currently I have rough plans for a total of 48 ships for my Tec(hDemo) Faction.  These ships range in size from Shuttle- and Corvette-class small ships all the way up to Mothership- and Titan-class capitals.  Every single ship class will have four abilities, a large majority of which are unique to that ship class.  This leads to... a lot of abilities for me to implement!

The first classification of ships is into three size categories:  small, large, and capital.

  • Small ships are very roughly equivalent to vanilla Sins frigates and cruisers.
  • Large ships I expect to be similar to low level vanilla capital ships. 
  • My capitals will be significantly larger than vanilla capitals, but will require the build time and fleet cap (and eventually resources) that one would expect.

I am currently implementing the 16 different small ship classes.  These small ships are categorized into four different hull types: Shuttles, Corvettes, Frigates, and Destroyers.

  • The Shuttle-type hull is a ship with no offensive capability, little defenses, and average speed.  These hulls are cheap and quick to build, and fill a variety of generally non-combat activities.
  • The Corvette-type hull is the combat-oriented small ship devoted primarily to speed.  The offensive and defensive capabilities of the Corvette are average, but the speed and manueverability of the Corvette is second to none.
  • The Frigate-type hull is the hardiest of the small ship hulls.  Their offensive abilities are average, and their speeds are nothing of note, but they utilize advanced hull alloys and more efficient shielding technologies to make the Frigate the longest lasting of the small sized ships.
  • The Destroyer-type hull is designed around maximum firepower in a small vessel.  Destroyers have the defensive abilities of the Corvette and the speed and maneuverability of the Frigate, but contain top-of-the-line weapons technologies, and utilize a plethora of antimatter-dependent systems designed to amplify and augment their standard weapons fire.

[EDIT on 10 Jun 2008] 

I have finished the Shuttle-type hulls!  This hull has been specialized into four different ship classes:  the Colony, the Scout, the Industrial, and the Miner.

  1. The Colony-class Shuttle is the tier-1 ship of this hull type.  Filled to the brim with civilians of all walks of life, the Colony Shuttle is designed to spread the influence of the people underlying your empire to new worlds .
    1. Colony Tier-1 ability: Colonize.  Costs 20 antimatter, has a 120 second cooldown.  Colonizes an unmanned planet for your empire.
    2. Colony Tier-2 ability: Population Hub.  Passive.  Increases population growth rate at local planet by 50%.
    3. Colony Tier-3 ability: Cultural Nexus.  Passive.  Increases culture spread at local planet.
    4. Colony Tier-4 ability: Conquer Planet.  Costs 100 antimatter, has a 1500 unit range, has a 1800 second cooldown.  Takes control of target enemy planet after 600 seconds.
  2. The Scout-class Shuttle is the tier-2 ship of this hull type.  Retrofitted with blazingly fast engines and utilizing the latest in reconnaissance technology, the Scout is designed to quickly explore the vast distances of space and to boldly go where no one of your empire has gone before.
    1. Scout Tier-1 ability: Explore.  Passive toggle.  Ship automatically explores new worlds when not given other orders.
    2. Scout Tier-2 ability: Planetary Monitoring.  Costs 25 antimatter, has a 2000 unit range, lasts 900 seconds, has a 300 second cooldown.  Gathers recon of target planet even without any ships in the area.
    3. Scout Tier-3 ability: Ship Monitoring.  Costs 75 antimatter, has a 5000 unit range, lasts 600 seconds, has a 600 second cooldown.  Gathers intel about the targeted enemy ship by attaching probes to hidden locations on the ship's hull.
  3. The Industrial-class Shuttle is the tier-3 ship of this hull type.  Crewed by semi-independent businesses, Industrial Shuttles are purposed with increasing the economic might of your empire.
    1. Industrial Tier-1 ability:  Crew Extractor.  Costs 40 antimatter, has a 1000 unit range, has a 60 second cooldown.  Captures a neutral extractor for your empire.
    2. Industrial Tier-2 ability:  Production Efficiency.  Passive.  Increases resource production at the local friendly planet by 10%.
    3. Industrial Tier-3 ability:  Market Control.  Passive.  Steals 10% of the resource production at the local enemy planet.
    4. Industrial Tier-4 ability:  Conquer Extractor.  Consts 75 antimatter, has a 1000 unit range, has a 600 second cooldown.  Takes control of the targeted enemy resource extractor after 120 seconds.
  4. The Miner-class Shuttle is the tier-4 ship of this hull-type.  This class of ship saw the Shuttle hull jury rigged to function as a deployment platform for localized defensive emplacements.  Unable to fit larger, more complicated point defense systems within its cargo bay, the Miner has been relegated to deploying simplistic, if effective, proximity mines.
    1. Miner Tier-1 ability:  Explosive Mines.  Costs 50 antimatter, has a 600 second cooldown.  Deploys a mine that does 200 damage to all ships in a 5000 unit radius when triggered.
    2. Miner Tier-2 ability:  Plasma Mines.  Costs 50 antimatter, has a 600 second cooldown.  Deploys a mine that does 600 damage to all ships in a 1500 unit radius when triggered.
    3. Miner Tier-3 ability:  Phase Mines.  Costs 100 antimatter, has a 900 second cooldown.  Deploys a mine that disables, for 90 seconds, the phase engines of all ships in a 3000 unit radius when triggered.

[END EDIT on 10 Jun 2008]

I have finished gameplay implementation of my first line of ships:  the Corvette-type hulls!  This hull has been specialized into four different ship classes:  the Skirmisher, the Antimatter Warfare, the Disrupter, and the Tackler.

  1. The Skirmisher-class Corvette is the tier-1 ship of this hull type.  Designed for hit-and-run engagements, the Skirmisher utilizes systems designed to quickly sabotage the enemy, as well as systems designed to dictate the terms of engagement.  Get in, eliminate the target, and get out.  That's the motto of a good Skirmisher crew.
    1. Skirmisher Tier-1 ability: Warmup Phase Engines.  Costs 50 antimatter, lasts 300 seconds, has a 300 second cooldown.  Decreases time to wind up phase engines to almost zero.
    2. Skirmisher Tier-2 ability: Timed Charges.  Costs 100 antimatter, has a 200 unit range, has a 300 second cooldown.  Deals 1200 damage to targeted enemy structure after 15 seconds.
    3. Skirmisher Tier-3 ability: Redirect Power.  Costs 25 antimatter, lasts 20 seconds, has a 20 second cooldown.  Increases weapon rate-of-fire of self by 25% but disables phase engines.
    4. Skirmisher Tier-4 ability: Thrust Amplification.  Passive.  Increases max speed of self by 25% and manueverability by 50%.
  2. The Antimatter Warfare-class Corvette is the tier-2 ship of this hull type.  Utilizing newly discovered antimatter projection systems, this ship can alter the antimatter stores of any ship, giving needed antimatter to friendlies, or destroying or even stealing the antimatter right out of the enemy's storage containers.
    1. Antimatter Tier-1 ability: Transfer Antimatter.  Costs 50 antimatter, has a 4000 unit range, lasts 10 seconds, has a 15 second cooldown.  Transfers 4.5 antimatter per second to the targeted friendly.
    2. Antimatter Tier-2 ability: Neutralize Antimatter.  Costs 75 antimatter, has a 4000 unit range, lasts 10 seconds, has a 20 second cooldown.  Removes 15 antimatter per second from the targeted enemy.
    3. Antimatter Tier-3 ability: Steal Antimatter.  Costs 25 antimatter, has a 1500 unit range, lasts 10 seconds, has a 10 second cooldown.  Steals 5 antimatter per second from the targeted enemy.
    4. Antimatter Tier-4 ability: Restoration Efficiency.  Passive.  Increases the antimatter restoration rate of self by 0.5 antimatter per second.
  3. The Disrupter-class Corvette is the tier-3 ship of this hull type.  Utilizing electromagnetic and antimatter-based disruption technology, this ship is designed to interfere with the offensive capabilities of the enemy fleet.
    1. Disrupter Tier-1 ability:  Antimatter Disruption.  Costs 15 antimatter, has a 4000 unit range, lasts 10 seconds, has a 30 second cooldown.  Disables the abilities of the targeted enemy ship.
    2. Disrupter Tier-2 ability:  EMP Cannon.  Costs 30 antimatter, has a 4000 unit range, lasts 5 seconds, has a 30 second cooldown.  Disables the weapons of the targeted enemy ship.
    3. Disrupter Tier-3 ability:  EMP Blast.  Costs 100 antimatter, has a 1000 unit range, lasts 10 seconds, has a 300 second cooldown.  Disables the weapons of all ships within range.
    4. Disrupter Tier-4 ability:  Interference Field.  Passive, has a 8000 unit range.  Increases the ability cooldowns of all enemies within range by 25%.
  4. The Tackler-class Corvette is the tier-4 ship of this hull-type.  The Tackler is designed to interfere with the functionality of the engine systems of the enemy fleet.  Both standard sub-light engines and phase engines can be interrupted or at least impeded.
    1. Tackler Tier-1 ability:  Phase Dampener.  Costs 25 antimatter, has a 2000 unit range, lasts 10 seconds, has a 10 second cooldown.  Disables the phase engines of the targeted enemy ship.
    2. Tackler Tier-2 ability:  Inertia Amplifier.  Costs 10 antimatter, has a 6000 unit range, lasts 10 seconds, has a 10 second cooldown.  Reduces the manueverability of the targeted enemy ship by 50%.
    3. Tackler Tier-3 ability:  Mass Projector.  Costs 10 antimatter, has a 6000 unit range, lasts 10 seconds, has a 10 second cooldown.  Reduces the top speed of the targeted enemy ship by 80%.
    4. Tackler Tier-4 ability:  Flax Net.  Costs 200 antimatter, has a 5000 unit range, lasts 20 seconds, has a 600 second cooldown.  Disables the engines, both sub-light and phase, of all ships within range.

[EDIT on 15 Jun 2008]

I have completed basic implementation of the Frigate-type hulls.  This hull has four specialized classes:  the Attack class, the Strike class, the Support class, and the Sweeper class.

  1. The Attack-class Frigate is the tier-1 ship of this hull type.  The first ship designed for direct fleet combat, the Attack-class frigate comes equipped with a full munitions system as well as an enhanced hull and shielding framework.  Advanced, antimatter-driven systems have been placed on top of that framework, making the Attack-class Frigate the pinnacle of survival in its size category.
    1. Attack Tier-1 ability: Afterburners.  Costs 75 antimatter, lasts 5 seconds, has a 60 second cooldown.  Increases the max speed and acceleration of self by 100%.
    2. Attack Tier-2 ability: Active Hardeners.  Costs 10 antimatter, lasts 10 seconds, has a 10 second cooldown.  Increases armor of self by 1.5.
    3. Attack Tier-3 ability: Redirect Power.  Costs 25 antimatter, lasts 20 seconds, has a 20 second cooldown.  Increases shield regeneration of self by 300% but disables all engines.
    4. Attack Tier-4 ability: Passive Hardeners.  Passive.  Increases armor of self by 1.
  2. The Strike-class Frigate is the tier-2 ship of this hull type.  The Strike-class hull has been retrofitted to function as a launching platform and mobile base for a squad of strikecraft.  The enhanced defensive systems of the Frigate hull make it much more likely that the pilots will have a home to return to after they've completed a sortie, even in the midst of fleet combat.
    1. Strike Tier-1 ability: Order Afterburners.  Costs 25 antimatter, lasts 10 seconds, has a 30 second cooldown.  Increases the max speed and acceleration of the strikecraft controlled by this ship by 100%.
    2. Strike Tier-2 ability: Order Repairs.  Costs 35 antimatter, has a 60 second cooldown.  Repairs 100 hull points on the strikecraft controlled by this ship.
    3. Strike Tier-3 ability: False Radar Signatures.  Costs 50 antimatter, lasts 120 seconds, has a 300 second cooldown.  Creates two illusionary copies of each of the strikecraft controlled by this ship, confusing the radar and target selection of the enemy.
    4. Strike Tier-4 ability: Order Overload.  Costs 100 antimatter, lasts 60 seconds, has a 600 second cooldown.  Increases the antimatter damage dealt by the strikecraft controlled by this ship by 50%.
  3. The Support-class Frigate is the tier-3 ship of this hull type.  Filled to capacity with the latest developments in fleet support and reparation technology, the Support-class design complements well any fleet utilizing ships that fall under the small size category.
    1. Support Tier-1 ability:  Remote Hull Repair.  Costs 75 antimatter, has a 5000 unit range, has a 20 second cooldown.  Repairs 200 hull points on the targeted friendly ship.
    2. Support Tier-2 ability:  Remote Shield Boost.  Costs 50 antimatter, has a 5000 unit range, has a 20 second cooldown.  Regenerates 200 shield points on the targeted friendly ship.
    3. Support Tier-3 ability:  Shield Harmonization.  Costs 25 antimatter, has a 5000 unit range, lasts 5 seconds, has a 5 second cooldown.  Increases the shield mitigation of the targeted friendly ship by 10%.
    4. Support Tier-4 ability:  Synergy Field.  Passive, has a 6000 unit range.  Increases the shield regeneration rate of all friendlies within range by 25%.
  4. The Sweeper-class Frigate is the tier-4 ship of this hull-type.  Designed as a counter-class to a proliferation of mining class ships, the Sweeper handles even the largest of minefields, given time.  Even though its primary purposes is the clearing of mines from the field of engagement, the Sweeper-class is designed with enough firepower to be of use in a fleet battle. 
    1. Sweeper Tier-1 ability:  Disable Mine.  Costs 30 antimatter, has a 6000 unit range, has a 10 second cooldown.  Destroys the targeted enemy mine after a 5 second delay.
    2. Sweeper Tier-2 ability:  Inertia Amplifier.  Costs no antimatter, has a 6000 unit range, has a 300 second cooldown.  Destroys the targeted enemy mine after a 5 second delay.
    3. Sweeper Tier-3 ability:  Hack FoF Detection.  Costs 75 antimatter, has a 6000 unit range, has a 600 second cooldown.  Takes control of the targeted enemy mine after a 15 second delay.

[END EDIT on 15 Jun 2008]

As I complete the implementation of more ship classes, I will add their details to this post.

What do you all think so far?  Do you think this is a cool idea?  Would you be interested in playing it and testing the balance of things?

modding
35,893 views 36 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
Sounds like a fantastic idea, imo sins needs greater variety in class of ships. I particularly like your ideas for ability use and a class of ship above capital. I'm curious how will the game work if the ships don't cost any resources? I would be happy to give you feedback on any beta release. Good luck with your mod.

bin
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
I wonder how easy it will be to use all of these abilities. One could set them to autocast, but run the risk of the wrong thing being used.
SoundPackager - Customize the Windows sound scheme
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top
wow, this is a great idea. I was gettin bored with the limited range of ships in this game. you just answered my prayers. i'd happily help ya test it out.
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
Yeah, balance is going to be an interesting thing, since very little of your warmachine is going to be dependent on resources. I would much rather be able to charge for the ships and truly balance everything... but I can only work within the bounds of what the developers allow me to mod.

With regards to abilities, I expect my mod is going to require a lot of micromanaging to win battles. I'm leaving autocast as a possibility for all the abilities, but I wouldn't expect that you're going to want to use it very often. Most of the combat-oriented ships have very small antimatter reserves, and little antimatter restoration, so I expect you'll need to be very selective in just when you utilize these abilities.

Oh, I think I forgot to mention this before, but I'm fairly sure the AI isn't going to be able to figure out how to build all my new ships... I'm going to have to figure out something to allow the AI to function in my mod, since a lot of folks tend to play single-player only...
Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top
sounds interesting. I'd like to see how this turns out :) 
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
I've completed implementation of the Shuttle-type hulls! Check out the initial post for further details on the abilities of four new ship classes: the Colony-class, Scout-class, Industrial-class, and Miner-class Shuttles!
Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top
Next up on the list: Frigate-type hulls! These ships are designed to be able to withstand incredible amounts of punishment, and turn their battlefield endurance into battlefield dominance! Check out the OP for further details on the abilities of the four Frigate-type classes: the Attack-class, the Strike-class, the Support-class, and the Sweeper-class!
Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top
So, let's talk balance. I'm adding this information as a point to begin a discussion to see what people think of the direction I'm planning on taking my mod, so feel free to comment about anything you see.

I have a few primary goals underlying the systems design of this plethora of ships.

1. Add further 4x-like depth to the game.
2. Keep the amount of micromanagement to a manageable level, but increase the power of good micromanagement.
3. Keep the amount of data one needs to remember at a manageable level.

4. Ensure that there are a multitude of viable strategies in any specific scenario for any player.
5. Ensure that every ship is used in at least one viable strategy in at least one specific scenario.
6. Ensure that there is at least one (preferably more than one) counter-strategy for any player against any opponent's strategy.

I feel that the third point needs some further elaboration. There is a certain amount of items that any person can keep track of at any point in time. Just about everyone can keep track of at least 4 items at once. Your average person can track 6 or 7 items. Rare is the person that can track 10 or more items at once. This is a definite point to remember when trying to design a system that includes 48 different ships!

Extending the 4x depth of Sins is the most obvious change. By creating 48 different ships in three different size categories, I believe there will be significantly more depth to the game.

To add to this, I am also planning on releasing a total of 63 different researches that enable the ships and their abilities. There will be a research topic for each of the 48 ship classes. Each of these topics has 4 tiers of research. The first tier of research will unlock the ship itself and the ship's tier-1 ability. The remaining tiers of research unlock their corresponding ship abilities. These researches will all ramp up fairly quickly in price, such that it is highly unlikely anyone will be able to research all of them in any one specific match. Also, there are going to be research topics for each of the 12 hull types and each of the 3 size categories. These also have 4 tiers of research. The tiers of the hull researches unlock the four ship classes under that hull type, and similarly, the size researches unlock the hull types under that category.

Keeping the amount of micromanagement to reasonable levels is something I've kept at the forefront of my mind since I began designing this mod. The research, as outlined above, will help reduce the amount of micromanagement required by reducing the amount of abilities you are likely to have access to at any one point in time. Another measure I've taken is implementing a lot of passive abilities. Roughly 1 ability per ship class is passive. A third measure I'm considering is reducing the fleet cap allowed at all levels of play, maybe to something like half of the vanilla size. This would directly impact the amount of micromanagement possible, which is the goal. This also would make the micromanagement you do more powerful, relatively. It would have a third effect of reducing the tendency to spam the hell out of units and simply win through sheer economy and macromanagement.

Keeping it all in your head is yet another worry I've had. My primary response to this problem is by making the hull classes very important. The DPS, hull/shield points, armor type, and speeds of the ship classes are almost always determined by their hull type and not by their ship class. Weapon type and abilities are generally more class-specific. What follows is a rough outline of the basic balance amongst the small ship hull types:

Table of Idealized Stats:
Hull Type: O D S Armor
Shuttles: 0 1 4 VeryLight
Corvettes: 1 1 5 Light
Frigates: 1 2 4 Medium
Destroyers: 2 1 4 Light
O = Offense, D = Defense, S = Speed

For each increment of an idealized value, the underlying ship statistics double. Destroyers have twice the offense of Corvettes, Corvettes have twice the speed of Shuttles. (The exception to that rule is the Shuttle's offense: zero means zero, not half of one.)
This seems like a reasonable baseline. Frigates and Destroyers are balanced against each other as standard fleet ships. Corvettes are designed into interception and hit-and-run roles. Shuttles fit perfectly into cheap, non-combat roles.

Further analysis, including reasoning behind the second half of my design points, to follow at a later time... this is enough discussion to start with.
Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top
1) Will their be different models for the different ship classes?
2) About the Conquer Planet ability for the shuttle classes, would't it be quicker to bomb the planet rather than wait 600 seconds?
3) Could the plasma mines have an effect that deals damage over time, like the Marza's radiation bomb?
4) Will any of the new ship classes have strikecraft?

I like the idea of this mod. It seems very professional with the organization of the page. I would like to play test if you ever need someone to do that ;)  Have you had any modding experience before this?
Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top
I'm a professional programmer, so I have a bit of experience in this sort of thing.  ;)  I mess around doing my own side game projects all the time, this is just the latest.

1) Long term, if people really use my mod, I'll get some custom models in there. I'm thinking having a unique base model for each hull type, and then slight tweaks to that model to differentiate the classes.

2) I'm not too happy about the Conquer Planet ability as it is. I thought it made a good proof-of-concept as the first conquering ability I created, but I agree, it's not all too useful as it is right now. However, I'm really hesistant to make that ability much more powerful, because I can see it being easily abused. Effectively, Conquer Planet provides an alternative method to taking planets other than bombardment. Swarm the enemy with 50 colony ships and tell them all to conquer, and it might get tough to counter. To be honest, I think it needs to be playtested to find a balance between useless and overpowered.

3) It could... Hell, I've already got a damage-over-time ability planned for another ship that I haven't released the ability info for just yet... I can always change it later, if people think it'd be cooler as a DoT...

4) The Strike-class Frigate controls one squad of strikecraft. And I have plans for strikecraft in the higher size categories as well.
Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top
Sounds like an intersesting concept. Would love to have a look at it and try out the mod ingame.
Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top
This sounds like a great idea. Looking forward to your first release.

DANMAN
Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top
About the Conquer Planet ability, you can take out and gain an enemy planet with one ship rather than several different kinds, saving you logistic points and resources, which you said you were going to reduce. I think its worth the 600 second wait.
Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top
This mod sounds interesting. One thing im going to ask tho, is do you plan on changing the "Culture" part or it least, add is a supply like aspect (in games like EvE there IS a supply aspect to POS (player owned stations) and fleets, which, it sounds like your basing the classification for your ships off of). IMO it would add a bit more depth to the game if you needed to have your planets connected through "supply" routes (which would take the form of trade stations but help increase "culture" but if they are destroyed, so the loyalty will start to fall until neutral). anyhoo, just an idea for you, i might attempt at doing something like this for my little personal mod im making.
Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top
I don't think it's possible to really do much with culture. From what I've seen, the way it works and the effects it has are all pretty well hardcoded into the executable and aren't moddable. I am still working with it, trying to create new and interesting ways to utilize culture, but the underlying mechanics are going to have to stay the same. (EDIT: Reading through your reply a second time, I see that you aren't really suggesting changing how culture works directly, but utilizing it to mimic a supply system. It's a curious idea, so I'm going to give it some thought... see if I can envision a functional system utilizing that basic idea.)

On another note, I'm hoping to get a preliminary build of this mod out sometime this weekend. It will have all 16 of the small sized ships, with all of their abilities and statistics set up properly. I'm probably not going to be able to implement the research tree I'm looking for yet, and I think I'm going to leave the build times for everything really short, for now. Think of it more like a sandbox for testing purposes, instead of a completely balanced modification. I'm moving halfway across the US this coming week, so my mod development time is going to be sketchy, at best... which is why I want to get something out there beforehand.
Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top
I'm releasing version 0.1.0.0 of my Tech Demo to the public!

All 16 ships are implemented with all of their abilities.

How To Play:

Your Frigate Factory has been replaced by a Small Spaceship HQ. To build another Small Spaceship HQ, use your Module Constructor, and look under the Tactical Modules. You can build a Frigate Factory still, but I wouldn't recommend it.

Your Small Spaceship HQ can build Frigates and Cruisers, just like a Frigate Factory. Ignore this functionality. These build the vanilla Frigates/Cruisers. Instead, the HQ has four abilities. These four abilities build four new Factories: the Shuttle Factory, Corvette Factory, Frigate Factory, and Destroyer Factory. To build one of my new factories, simply move a Module Constructor into position, then use the factory-building ability, targetting that Module Constructor. If you target anything other than a Module Constructor, the ability will not successfully create a Factory, but the cooldown timer will be triggered.

The four new Factories do not build ships like the vanilla Sins Factories do. Instead, they build four different ships using their abilities. Unlike the HQ, the Factories do not require a target for creating the ship. Instead, the ship is created right next to the Factory, similar to how vanilla Sins works.

Once you've built some ships, have some fun! Go obliterate some AIs with your powerful micro or your broken macro!

What I want from you:

First off, I'm looking for bugs and other issues. Problems where things aren't working as they should. I've already got a short list of problems I've noticed while developing, but I'm sure there's a bunch more issues that I haven't caught just yet. You all are my beta testers. :D

Also, I'd be interested in some basic balance discussions, primarily regarding abilities. What seems useless to you? What seems ridiculously overpowered? I haven't started any personal balance playtesting yet, so things might be a bit wacky still.

----

I'm going to add a list of known issues to my initial post. I'm starting to think I'm going to need to reorganize this whole thing...
Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top
Argh. It's going to be a few days until Stardock approves my mod to be downloadable through the Sins website. Until then, send me a Private Message that includes your email address, and I will email you this release ASAP.
Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top
I'd love to playtest for you :D 

If you click a person's user name a drop-down menu will appear and one of the options is e'mail
Reply #19 from Sins Forums Top
They approved my mod for access from the Sins website already!

Go to https://www.wincustomize.com/skins.aspx?skinid=69&libid=71 to download it.

I'm going to be leaving for California early tomorrow morning. My internet access is going to be spotty at best for the next week or so. I'll try to get back to the website as often as I can to answer anyone's questions and participate in any conversations going on.
Reply #20 from Sins Forums Top
I downloaded the incomplete mod last night and made my first attempt at playing it today. The first bug I have come in contact with is that the module constructors refuse to move. When I roll-over the constructor it has the green line that is connected to the designated module to be built, but its not moving. That bug has limited how far my empire's reach is, so I didn't get to test much. I am 99% sure the bug is related to the ability that has been given to the constructors in place of construction. The other bug is the shuttle/corvette/frigate/destroyer factories can only be built if the small ship HQ targets a module constructor.

Other than that I was impressed with the skill put into this mod so far. My favorite part so far is the mines. Putting fleet logistic points on the mines was brilliant.
Reply #21 from Sins Forums Top
When you say the module constructors can't move, exactly what do you mean? Are they immobile altogether? Are they no longer building modules that you create through the Logistic/Tactical menus? Are there any modules that build properly, or do all of them not work? Can you start a module building properly, and the constructor simply doesn't fly to the new module? If you can start the module building, can you then select a constructor afterwards and build the module? What version of Sins are you using, 1.05? (I've only done my testing in the developer executable.)

The second thing is working as intended. You can only build the Factories at a module constructor. The idea is that I wanted to mimic the standard module building process as closely as possible. Since there's going to be at least 12 factories in the final version, I can't simply add them to the base module lists.

As for the mines, that was the only way I could find to limit the power of them. I would've preferred something that utilized the strikecraft system, but I couldn't make it all work satisfactorily that way. If you do a search for my posts, you can see the different approaches I tried in implementing that.

Glad you're liking what you're seeing so far. Does anyone else have any further input?
Reply #22 from Sins Forums Top
The constructor simply doesn't move. I am using 1.05
Reply #23 from Sins Forums Top
I think that it has to do with the new ability you added in for constructors Blackseraph, "Classification: Module Constructor". Whenever I try to build a structure, that is used instead of Construction, which is what is supposed to be used, but you got rid of it.
Reply #24 from Sins Forums Top
I think that it has to do with the new ability you added in for constructors Blackseraph, "Classification: Module Constructor". Whenever I try to build a structure, that is used instead of Construction, which is what is supposed to be used, but you got rid of it.
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That was my initial thought too.
Reply #25 from Sins Forums Top
Hmm... interesting. I swear it was still building modules even after I replaced the ability when I was testing... then again, the dev executable could handle that case differently... I'll get around to fixing that ASAP, once I get Sins installed on a computer somewhere...

The simple solution is to replace the tier-4 ability on the constructor instead of the Construct tier-1 ability. If you go into FrigateTechModuleConstructor.entity and change Ability:0 to "AbilityTechModuleConstruction" and Ability:3 to whatever I've got in Ability:0, that -should- switch the abilities properly. (I may not have the names exactly right, I'm pulling them off of the top of my head.) If either of you could try that out for me, I would appreciate it greatly. Otherwise it'll probably be a few days still until I can get a machine ready to go for my testing.