'Allowing our country'?

The common citizens of this country have no say in how the politicians run it - or the wars they decide to engage in.


Many of us are against the war in Iraq, but does that make a difference?
Are we out yet?


Bush and the like have their own agenda.
The little people don't count.



My advice?
The rest of the world should, perhaps, gang up on the US.

...to play the devils advocate, what if not striking first resulted in the Iranians striking first? We are, after all, dealing with a regime more than happy to undermine and dominate its neighbours and has a president that wants to "wipe Israel off the map". Worst case scenario, no preemptive strike occurs and the Iranians are thereby able to develop a nuke and use it on, say, Tel Aviv.

Not to support the Bush administration or its generally incompetent approach to world affairs, but the whole situation in the middle east is incredibly complex and offers no black-and-white solutions. It also involves some nasty people with a disturbing amount of power.

Finally, I don't think I agree with the conclusions of the guy in the video. While the US military isn't too good at running an occupation, they have proven themselves time and time again to be damned good at running an open war. I don't care what tricks Iran has up its sleeves, but if the US decides that its worth the political risks to take down Iran, Iran is going down. Realistically, a developing country military isn't going to be able to stand up for a moment to the US.

...It is terrifying, though, that any country would deem a nuclear weapon "usable" in that fashion.

Oh, but the video the OP posted is from a year ago.

So, to recap, the original poster is making up a scenario in which the USA bombs Iran, directly citing a video from a year ago (in which other people make up a scenario), and indirectly citing BBC news.

He then condemns the USA for carrying out this atrocious action. You know, the one he had just made up.

Did I get that right?

Your own intelligence agencies have said in their recent report that Iran does not have a nuclear weapon and stopped all development back in 2003

www.iht.com/articles/2007/12/03/america/cia.php - 66k

So why all the sabre rattling?

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/20/AR2008032002284_pf.html

On a side note what would happen if a foreign government on the other side of the world decided that the US should not have object X and then bombed the facilities holding them.

Last time I think was dec 7th 1941.

Try to see it from the other side.

Ahmadinejad has said a number of times that he intends to wipe Israel off the map. I'm not sure what the confusion is.



What would happen? We would make them regret it.

There's a reason the last time was December 7th, 1941.

Nor do we. We've evolved past that stage somewhat, despite what you'd like to think.

I'm still not sure what you're worried about. The President says dumb shit sometimes. That isn't news.

And lemme tell you something. If Iran develops a nuclear reactor, the USA won't have to do anything. The Israeli Air Force will be on that shit before you can say "depleted uranium."

When Iraq was building a nuclear reactor, Israel took it out. When Syria was building a nuclear reactor, Israel took it out. If Iran builds a nuclear reactor, Israel is sure as hell gonna take it out.

The initial cost in lives from those nukes was 150,000, total it was 500,000 give or take. Yes there were a lot of kids killed in these two attacks.


The estimate in lives if we had invaded Japan was 1.3 to 1.5 million. Remember these estimates are usually low. How many kids would have been killed from an invasion. Remember the civilians in Japan have no where to run. They live on an island well 4.

The justification of bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki is very long and complex and there are several good texts written covering that topic . I will take the view that it was in a different time in another era and that its almost impossible to properly put ourselves in the shoes of those that decided.

Today however there are many countries with Nuclear capability and many who could develop it if they feel its the only way to keep any form of independance from foreign influnce and control.

Using nuclear weaponry even using the concept of nuclear weaponry as a method of military success ( see the first video attachment ie. current american nuclear weapons usage ) is simply an invitation for escalation and an eye for an eye or rather a city for a city.

As for saying Iran is this great evil that loves to kill you do realize that America is resposible for more misery in Iran than Iran has ever done to you?

Simple example would be the Shah of Iran a dictator put in and supported by the US for decades . The war between Iraq and Iran that continued for years where you supplied your then puppet Saddam Hussain with intelligence ( satellite photos ) , Weapons ( including the chemicals he used to gas the Kurds back when he was still your ally ) .

So from a historical view Iran has much more to fear from the USA then they ever managed to do against you

Yep, we've done lots of shady shit in the past. Especially during the Cold War.

That's not what we're discussing here though. You're accusing our government of planning to nuke Iran, but not providing any evidence. It seems to me you're just fearmongering and America-bashing.

it is quite amusing to me that US citizens blame the .... well lets call it animosity.. that the rest of the world has for US gov and in smaller extent to US people in general (i guess the reason for that is because those citizens are living in the "land of the free" but where no one uses the "freedom" to make their country and the world in general better, in fact they either don't care or do quite the opposite) all on Bushes administration... whenever i talk to my american friends and world and/or US politics question is triggered in discussion no one quite remembers Nickson, Clinton and the other US presidents... i mean they actually believe that the world started hating US only in last 8 years or so...

from Vietnam to Iraq not a single war US led managed to make new friends, including the people they "liberated" from the shackles of oppression and tyrany yadda, yadda... for that matter most of the political decisions US gov made in last 30 years had as result even more people enemies of US... i think if/when USA finally starts being society ruled by democracy and when common fella has more options to choose from than simple choosing between A and B where A is pretty much the same as B with only slight changes overall , only then IMHO will US stop making enemies and start renewing their old connections and alliances; and most important start making positive changes in this world, as they did since they were created and until mid 20th century...

what i always admired about US people is their amazing patriotism.. now, most of the other nations only start uniting and working for a common goal only when the shit hits the fan, but as for americans they are starting to defend their country and all that it stands for as soon as someone even tries to offend it.. on the other hand, unfortunately, those same patriots are quite ignorant of interior, not to mention exterior situations.. or for that matter anything at all, making that patriotism manifest only as stubborn fanatism, which is a pity because it only makes the bad situation worse i can only wish there were more americans that could analize behavior and principles of their (and foreign) government and citizens..

on topic: the scenario where US goes to war with Iran is very unlikely... all factors aside, if US starts war with Iran, MOIS might decide to talk about Afgan and Iraq operations, which could cause serious damage on already weak position US has, especially after recent political decisions where they lost quite a number of allies only gaining Turkey as potential partner (i doubt that because of Qurd question and northern Iraq occupation settlement, and even that fragile potential alliance would be over the second US attacks Iran) and especially with Russias, Indias and Chinas recent strengthening both economically and politically ... now, i might be wrong altogether because of the new administration coming to the White House.. they could easily blame connections with Iranians on CIA or even better Bushes administration, and that decision would if not remove, at least weaken that threat...

politics aside, Iran is stronger that all of the other nations US went to war in last 30 years put together, and US didn't quite manage to show their superiority in any of those wars, in fact most of them cost several hundred times more than expected both in money and in casualty rate.. if US decides to attack Iran, it will be very costly for both sides, and frankly, while i give advantage to US, i wouldn't put my money on them... lets just hope that that scenario never happens and we all find a peaceful solution for co-existence

I must add that as a Canadian I do not have any problems with the American people but I am cautious of your current administration and the direction it has taken you.

Our country currently has lost almost 100 soldiers in Afganistan attempting to perform the duties we accepted to assist the US from the attack on the World Trade Center.

Since that time however you have started a conflict with Iraq under false pretenses ( or at least your governtment has ) and our soldiers in Afganistan die partly because you have chosen to escalate the situation.

So when I read news reports about aggressive military stances made by Israel and worrying statements made by your current President I am afraid , so perhaps fearmongering is the right word.

Any country's foreign policy is there exclusively for their own interests. Oh, and many countries are apart of atrocities, not just America.