Biggest Disappointment of All?

from Sins Forums

Is it just me, or is anyone else VERY disappointed with the diplomacy in the game?  Seeing as how SoSE came from the developers of my beloved Galactic Civilization series (which, in my opinion, is the greatest 4x strategy set in space to date), I expected much, much more.

This isn't to say, however, other aspects of the game are not impressive.  The scale is, as the tagline states, is like nothing else.  But this seems much more like a RTS than a RTS-4x blend.  I digress, however.  Getting back to diplmacy, the demands and missions are completely absurd and, to me, take the player out of the atmosphere of the game.  A sophisticated space-faring civilization would not simply base its decision on warming up to you solely on the grounds that you attacked an enemy or gave away crystal.  There's much more to it.  Also, does anyone else here think stopping the game breifly when a diplomatic transaction occurs (a la GalCiv or Civilization IV) would be the end of the world?  It would give the diplomatic aspect of the game much more prominence.

I'm sure I haven't said anything which has not been stated already.  I just wanted to talk about my biggest qualm with the game.  Overall, however, it is an impressive peice of work.  I hope, however, the team plans to overhaul the diplomacy aspect of the SoSE series in the future (whehter it be in an instalment or expansion pack).  Any word on this?

*Forgive my spelling, MS Word has ruined me!  ;)

10,922 views 16 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
Seeing as how SoSE came from the developers of my beloved Galactic Civilization series
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Actually, while we published Sins and influenced the development, the actual work is and was done by Ironclad.
Reply #2 from Stardock Forums Top
Befor sins, I never knew Ironclad Existed.
Is their main work video games?
Do they have any really big titles out there?
Offworld Trading Company
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top
Also, does anyone else here think stopping the game breifly when a diplomatic transaction occurs (a la GalCiv or Civilization IV) would be the end of the world?
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I like this idea as well, but what if you want to negotiate with an AI on a multiplayer game? Would everyone have to stop so you can finish the diplomacy?
Still, though, I do agree (now that I finally have the game) about the diplomacy. On a side note, however, I must say that although it seems the RTS aspects are more prominent than the 4x aspects, this game just wouldn't be nearly as good as it is without the said 4x aspects. I think I'm going to have many a late night because of this game :P
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
hm, I have given the issue some consideration and maybe one of the reasons its not that fleshed out is that it would distract too much from the action at hand. I think the underground/ pirate screen serves as a case in point. you cannot sit there for one or two minutes and constantly watch the bounties to make sure you wont get hit by the pirates, hence the mini screen we hopefully seen soon in 1.10 beta.

now, if you implemented a whole, big diplomacy feature that would take you quite away from your empire. thinking from my game style in 4x games this is definately true since I like spending a few minutes checking who likes me and who not and why. who could offer me what and what would they need. who a potential ally may be or who I seek to wipe out next. well, I think I made my point. it could be more, but at a certain point a different interface structure needs to be adopted. maybe much of the trading could go from the main window itself. sort of a button that adds any selected item to a trade table. so you pick eg a planet of yours, add it to the table, select a planet of theirs, add it to the table and then click on some propose button. could be fairly small and retractable as the empire tree is. fold it up if you need it, fold it down if you down.

now that I think of it, a diplomatic tree would be good. fold up, see all players, hover over them for information like the "i like you" %. fold up further for ships, planets, treaties etc, fold up there for individual items, click/ drag it to some kind of small interface. essentially a way to do all sorts of exchanges without leving the main view. just without fancy graphics/ pictures, but playability > looks.
Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top
My biggest disappointment-no autodownloading for custom, Galaxy Forge-made maps in online multiplayer.

The other big disappointment--many people view the game as a single player game and have never considered playing it online against human opponents, resulting in unjustifiably low online player counts.
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
Befor sins, I never knew Ironclad Existed.Is their main work video games?Do they have any really big titles out there?
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Before Sins, they didn't exist. This is their first game :)

For a fun fact, Ironclad Games is composed of 9 people, in total.
Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top
Before Sins, they didn't exist. This is their first game

For a fun fact, Ironclad Games is composed of 9 people, in total.
End of quote


A group of nine people's first game, and they get editor's choice award on every major and many minor review sites, bestselling PC strategy game, and second-best selling PC game (for a period - how are the updates on this?) not even counting their online sales. What was it, 200,000 total sales in the first month? Of course, that's not counting the retail sales obtained in Australia and the UK (and other relevant countries), since these countries released the game much later. (Friends of mine obtained the game before I could tell them about it and were already relishing epic matches.)
The only thing that really annoys me, about games in general, is the fact that a new game in the US costs US$50, and the equivalent in Australia costs AUS$80-90, despite the fact that the two currencies are extremely close to parity.
Apologies for the diversion, but yeah... I had to let that out.
Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top
For a fun fact, Ironclad Games is composed of 9 people, in total.
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So that's why their patches take ages..

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top
The only thing that really annoys me, about games in general, is the fact that a new game in the US costs US$50, and the equivalent in Australia costs AUS$80-90, despite the fact that the two currencies are extremely close to parity.
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Stardock actually charged in USD no matter where you buy from, they don't bother with regional pricing, so if you ever order from them you'll only pay the USD price. That's how everyone in EU was getting it for a steal, especially the digital DL, since the dollar is weaker there. :)

So that's why their patches take ages..
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Depending on how you look at it, Sins is about to release its 6th (or 5th if you don't count the day 1 patch) in 6 months, that's not something I'd call "ages", considering that I don't remember any non-MMO and non-Blizzard/Stardock game to get 6 patches in its lifetime. :P
Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top
Ironclad Games is composed of 9 people, in total.
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I knew Ironclad was small, but not this small. :LOL:

They certainly have some real talent in there. I bet they are growing now after the success of Sins though.

Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top
Depending on how you look at it, Sins is about to release its 6th (or 5th if you don't count the day 1 patch) in 6 months, that's not something I'd call "ages", considering that I don't remember any non-MMO and non-Blizzard/Stardock game to get 6 patches in its lifetime.
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CnC3 got 9 patches, I believe (7 if you don't count 2 that were really just hotfixes), but they took a year. Not that I don't disagree with your argument or that I don't think SoaSE is the best RTS I've ever played, just that it's definitely not the only non-MMO and non-Blizzard game to get 6 patches.
Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top
CnC3 got 9 patches, I believe (7 if you don't count 2 that were really just hotfixes), but they took a year. Not that I don't disagree with your argument or that I don't think SoaSE is the best RTS I've ever played, just that it's definitely not the only non-MMO and non-Blizzard game to get 6 patches.
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If it weren't a matter of public record, I would call you a liar here and now for saying an EA game got more than a handful of patches period. And even after checking, I still don't believe it. That is just how much I hate and distrust EA.
Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top
They certainly have some real talent in there. I bet they are growing now after the success of Sins though.
End of quote


Yeah, Vancouver!

Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top
Stardock actually charged in USD no matter where you buy from, they don't bother with regional pricing, so if you ever order from them you'll only pay the USD price.
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But can retail franchises still up the price? EB over here charges $70 for Sins (though a sale was on when I bought it a few days ago)... is there some other mechanic, as well? I also notice that the box was labelled with N3VTF4LL - the Oz publisher, if I'm not mistaken? I'm confused :P

Thanks for the info :) In my gripe I was referring to games in general, though - Sins is clearly an exception...
Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top
But can retail franchises still up the price?
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Well, retail distribution outside of the US isn't handled by Stardock, so they don't have as much control over the pricing. In the US, they can't really undercut the retailers because that would make them somewhat upset :P
Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top
I have to agree with TS. Diplomacy takes the fun out of the game. Strangely enough, turning diplomacy off makes the game way too easy. But overall, the game is excellent, especially considering it was done by a 9 man crew. Hopefully, Diplomcy will get an upgrade in future version.

The only thing that really annoys me, about games in general, is the fact that a new game in the US costs US$50, and the equivalent in Australia costs AUS$80-90, despite the fact that the two currencies are extremely close to parity.
End of quote

I paid 44,95$ in pre-order (~30 euro at the time). It is currently in the store as a retail-version here for €49,99 (~ 79$) while you can get it for 44.95$ (~ 29 euro) as a digital download + retailbox @ stardock. The difference is rather large, though I have to say the European retail-box is quite nice and very professional. Front-flap has a velcro fastner, print-quality is excellent and has some nice glossy effects.