Good at 1.02, Stink at 1.03

I'm not sure if it's true, but it seems that 1.03 changed the AI's to trade very aggresively with each other, while they tend to withdraw your suggestions. This was also mentioned in other threads and it seems quite unfair to me. Nothing against a difficult game, but shouldn't all civs treated the same way?

I don't know if it was a change in the 1.03 version, but the AIs definitely do trade techs A LOT. Check out the end game tech summary and look at how many techs the races researched vs. the ones they knew.

I just finished a game where I researched something like 120 of my 140 techs; the others had numbers like 80/130, 60/130, 50/110, and 25/100! The AIs are getting something like half their techs through trade.

The AIs also seem more agressive in 1.03; I find that I have to start every game the same way now - grab planets and then immediately research techs to build up my military lest they gang up on me. The 1.04 version is supposed to count defensive ships better, so that may even things out some.

You can still win though, LawTard! Just crank the difficulty down a bit and learn the new lay of the galaxy.

I never played 1.02 (got the game when 1.03 was out already). But I have the very same impression like #1 It's damn hard to trade techs with the AI especially because you don't know what would be enough for them. They almost always make a much better deal in the end. And when it does not come to a deal they simply leave me behind...

They refuse to trade with you, or offer you very little, and they do trade with each other? Pah! Civ 3 all over again.
That explains why they had battleships when I was still working on building batteaxes... back before I dropped from Crippling (Genius) to Painful (Intellegent).
I was able to keep ahead of research in my last game, but they paid me diddly squat when I tried to trade/sell them anything.
I hate 1.3. I haven't hated a game this much since Civ 3. Which is sad, because I liked 1.1 and 1.2, even if they were too easy to win, even at crippling.
Perhaps 1.4. At least the AIs will take defence into account before attacking you.

This has happened to me with every revision since, and including, beta testing. Initially it really ticked me off, but now I just remember to take a step back on the difficulty ladder whenever a new revision is released. It usually only takes me one or two games to get back to the level I was at before the change.

The tougher trading hasn't bothered me since the major civs won't trade with me until I'm ahead of them in tech/overall power in 80% of the games I play, anyway. I concentrate on trading with the minor civs, although I occasionally get games where they jump out to a huge tech lead and won't trade with me either. It's forced me to develop strategies that don't rely as much on trade to keep my income up. Of course, I still have to clean my monitor regularly, since I tend to spit when I'm screaming obscenities.

End transmission.

~SDC~

Hmm, weird; my impression (1,03 patch; painful) is that I got a fair deal from the Majors and rather too good a deal from the Minors. But I had +70% Diplomacy, so the explanation for bad deals may be a Diplo disadvantage?!

Never underestimate the power of Diplomacy!

Normal is too hard, sub normal is to easy in my opinion.

I've also stepped down in diff level (after two abortive starts) to try out 1.04 and found that it helps to specialise in military tech. The Yor and Drengin will give anything to get their hands on certain ship-enabling techs and the minors certainly seem willing to hand over a lot of cash for mil-tech as well.

I wonder if the Arceans will pay extra for influence boosting techs seeing as they now seem to pursue a culture strategy (judging by the module choices anyway).

It's a shame, really. I'm thinking that maybe I might find 1.02 somewhere and just reinstall it. I enjoyed the game much more back then. Win or lose, it felt like I was getting a fair shake.

Everything else aside, give me back fair tech trading and I will be happy.

Well, I can empathise - I was rolling over the AI at crippling in 1.02, and promptly got my butt kicked using the same tactics as 1.03.

What I do now (and while I'm not a great player, I'm not bad either), is to rush for
trade goods, like frictionless clothing, aphrodisiac et al. I then go trading with all the minors/majors. This works _much_ better than tech exchange, with the obvious exception that the majors will never (in my experience) trade ship tech.

In 1.02, I used to like to be somewhat isolated. In 1.03 a good starting position is close to all the enemy civs, and preferably a couple of minors.

Having now struggled back up to 'Crippling' level, I've got a small thrill out of adapting to the AI...

~SDC~

"Having now struggled back up to 'Crippling' level, I've got a small thrill out of adapting to the AI..."

Ah, Crippling Level. Excellent. From your profile, I see you match both Pontius`(5 evil wins) and my (10.000pts at high difficulty) promotion criteria, so consider joining G.R.O.S.S. and getting instant promotion to Senator!

I actually *upgraded* my difficulty level when I went from 1.02 to 1.03. 02 was too easy to win on Challenging; buy up hordes of obsolete defense ships (should be 1 part of every deal) so the Drengin leave you alone, then turtle until Dreadnoughts.

I'm now playing 03, on Crippling, Gigantic. The Torians in my current game got a *big* head start on me tech-wise, and the minor civs completed several trade goods and Wonders before I could. But I got the Diplomatic Translators, Aphrodisiac, and Gravitic Accelerators.... One trade of Aphrodisiac to teh Drengin and Gravitic Accelerators to the Torians, and *BAM* I'm up even with the galaxy in Tech. Having some cash issues (usually trade trade goods for $$, not tech), but I'm not way behind anymore...

As said before, research your own ship tech and get the rest from the AI. They wanted 1-for-1 Aphro for Corvette tech, but were willing to give up Warp Drive, 1d Phasing, High-Tensile Metals, Shields, Phasers, Improved Environment, and Basic Repair (and 78 bc) instead....

It should be pointed out that with 1.03 the AI is doing "fair" tech trading; they just trade a bit more aggressively with each other than they did before. (It certainly isn't like Civ3, where the AI civs received clear and increasingly strong bonuses when trading with each other, as you increased in difficulty level.) They also don't pay out multiple techs in a trade unless they really value the tech they're getting (often military techs, as mentioned above.) It's very clear what they're trading in the debug.err file, and from what I've seen it's all quite in line with the deals I've been able to make with them.

I definitely agree with the assessment that developing/buying trade goods and then trading those for multiple techs seems a good way to keep up in the tech race on higher difficulty levels. This makes perfect sense; a race can always research a tech instead of trading for it, but they (finally) can't get a trade good unless they're willing to trade for it. There's a reason they're called "trade" goods, after all.