is this normal.....?

from Sins Forums

Hi to all! Ive been playing SoaSE for a week and some questions just pop up. Dun usually speak in forums before (pure watching usually), but think I may just ask.

I created a map with Forge almost since I started playing the game, and ve played with it ever since. The map consists of 6 smaller system surrounding 1 huge system (the # of planets in the huge system almost double the total # of planets in the systems surrounding it). Forget about the huge system btw, as I have never really get to it in my games. In the first game I played, I have 6 players homeworld set in the 6 small systems, 4 in the huge. I started in one of the smaller system, and after solely controlled it, another faction just kept sending fleets into my system. When I was really annoyed, I sent in my fleets to their home system to get rid of him (he also started in 1 of the small system). Eventually I won, conquered all his planets. In the process, I noticed his home planet kept switching after I burst up the previous. And I didn't get him defeated until I conquered all his planets.

Then, in another game, I moved 2 more players into the huge system, which made it 6 ai in the middle system, and 4 in the surrounding systems (including me), so 2 small systems were uninhabited at the start. After the game started for sometime, I targeted one of the uninhabited systems (which was already colonized by another faction). I got rid of them after a while, then sent my fleets to their home system. Their home system had 2 choke points (hope I got the term right), only 1 planet is connected to the star, and that planet only had another phase lane going to another planet. My first fleet jumped in the first choke point, and eventually defeated their large fleet (they retreated after a while, although I dun know why. Their fleet looked larger than mine, or at least the same size as mine). In the process, I destroyed 1 of their cap, and dun know how many other smaller ships. My second fleet went in then, going for the second choke point. This time they didn't run, and I had to fight them to the very last ship (their fleet is still big, but may be a few ships less than mine). After I destroyed their fleet and most buildings around the planet, I got some diplomacy message (some requests from another faction, nothing important). I went into the diplomacy screen, clicking around, and amazingly I saw the faction I was at war with was defeated! They still have like 5 planets, and I wasn't attcking their home planet? And the planet I was assualting didn't even fall (still have more than half hp). Well, I saved and restarted this battle. Checked first the enemy wasn't defeated in the diplomacy window before jumping in, and kept checking it often during the battle. I noticed then he was defeated after the first cap ship was destroyed (or maybe earlier, can't tell). They still have 2 cap ships and half of their fleet fighting but their whole faction was defeated????? I knew the ai would surrender in this game, but did they surrendered in the middle of a battle? And the remaining fleet just kept fighting after their leader surrendered? I mean, was that normal??

Sorry for the long post, maybe Ive kept silence for so long I just can't stop talking :)   More details for the above situations: the first game was 1.05, and when I went attack that faction, we owned 1 smaller systems each. They kept fighting until the last planet fell, and I got a message saying I defeated another faction. The second game was 1.09, I owned 2 smaller systems before jumping into their homeworld. They only have 1 system by then. I didn't get any message that he was defeated. I wouldn't even know if I didn't look in the diplomacy window. So my question is, why did the ai decided to surrender in the middle of a battle?? And in the first game, why the enemy didn't surrender but the seond did? What made the ai surrender???

I actually have other questions beside the above one, but this post really looked too long, may be I will ask sometime later.

4,556 views 7 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

Ironclad never specifically said what the criteria for AI surrendering is, but what you experienced is not that unusual. I've had the AI surrender in similar situations. It probably sees that it's got almost nothing left, you still have a huge fleet, and figures it stands no chance. Sometimes they fight to the bitter end, sometimes they surrender early. Who knows :P

You also never get a message, have to see it through the diplomacy screen like you say. That's normal.

And lastly, the ship combat AI is different from the overall empire management AI. Each ship has its own brain, so to speak, so even when the AI empire is defeated, its ships still fight. The fleet doesn't move from its grav well, because there's no AI control over it anymore, but it'll still fight if you jump in.

I think that answers pretty much all your questions? :)

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

The Ai will often retreat when you kill enough capital ships and have the numbers. So when I'm looking to take a planet, but dont really want a slugfest at that point, I'll target the capital ships only until the fleet retreats and leaves me with the planet.

Galactic Civilizations IV
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top
Annatar11:

Thanks for the answer. Now I know I am not alone! :)  Some more questions if you dun feel annoying:

I saw that in the tech tree, the last research (either military or civilian) only requires 8 labs of the respective type, so would it make any difference if I build more than 8? Speed up research or something? Or is it just a waste building extra?

If you're playing a multi-system map with 10 players - just say the one I mentioned in the previous post - what would your fleet be composed of as a TEC? My concern is, I dunno if I should just leave some of my systems alone, without any ships there. If I dun do so, I end up having to split my fleet smaller and smaller to cover all the systems. I only have 3 at the moment, and it is already cutting my defensive fleet quite thin (I allocated 750 points in this fleet, for the rest 1750 points, I made up 2 fleets as attacking force. BTW, I chose large fleet size in the game option).

3rd question (I feel myself annoying already, hehe). Do I need a broadcast center in every planet I colonize? I mean, since culture doesn't seem to go to another system, if I solely own a system, I only really need to build one in one of the planets, right?

My last question (finally :) ) is, how do you do smart ping as said in the manual? I want to tell my allies I'm going to attack this place, have you send in some troops too if avail. Or I want them to come defend my planet. I know it is not really useful as allies may not come, or coming too late, but it would be good if they get there in time. Not because my force is not enough,  I just want them to take the casualties for me (I know I am evil, lol). Anyway, I have this smart ping thing working sometimes and most not, especially when I want them to come to my planet. All shown in the action grid are the usual commands like planet development, building civilian things, etc. So, how to get this done correctly?

Thanks for your time! :)

 

apricotslice:

Thanks for your reply too. I think you may not have got my point though. I was saying the AI empire actually got defeated in the middle of a battle, not he was losing the battle. I mean, you would see a portrait of all players in the game in the diplo screen, right? When a player is defeated, his portrait will become no color, looking like he has been shot down. That was what I mean. Thanks again for replying anyway.

Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top

If you're playing a multi-system map with 10 players - just say the one I mentioned in the previous post - what would your fleet be composed of as a TEC? My concern is, I dunno if I should just leave some of my systems alone, without any ships there. If I dun do so, I end up having to split my fleet smaller and smaller to cover all the systems. I only have 3 at the moment, and it is already cutting my defensive fleet quite thin (I allocated 750 points in this fleet, for the rest 1750 points, I made up 2 fleets as attacking force. BTW, I chose large fleet size in the game option).

That really just depends on your personal preference. Some people may find that leaving a small amount of ships in every planet they conquer works for them (though it stops being feasible when your empire gets large enough). I just build hangars and an equal number of repair stations in each of my planets, and use that to keep invaders occupied until I can get a large force over to repel them. Whatever floats your boat, or sinks theirs.

3rd question (I feel myself annoying already, hehe). Do I need a broadcast center in every planet I colonize? I mean, since culture doesn't seem to go to another system, if I solely own a system, I only really need to build one in one of the planets, right?

You technically don't need broadcast centers anywhere, but they do help. Depending on how strong your enemy's culture is in a system, you may indeed have to put one (or more than one) broadcast center per planet. If you own an entire system, you probably don't need to worry about spreading your culture anyway.

I saw that in the tech tree, the last research (either military or civilian) only requires 8 labs of the respective type, so would it make any difference if I build more than 8? Speed up research or something? Or is it just a waste building extra?

I don't know for sure, but I don't think you get anything for building more than 8 each.

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

Torgamous did a good job on answering, but I'll throw in my $.02 still :)

I saw that in the tech tree, the last research (either military or civilian) only requires 8 labs of the respective type, so would it make any difference if I build more than 8? Speed up research or something? Or is it just a waste building extra?
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More than 8 is basically just an insurance policy. You don't get any bonuses, but all of the superweapons, ship hulls, and building types that you unlock through research require you to maintain the number of labs they needed to research. So, if you have 8 and build a bunch of superweapons and then you lose a planet and a lab gets destroyed, you can no longer use those superweapons until you get back up to 8 labs. In most cases, though, as you expand your labs will end up deep in your territory so you don't really have to worry about it.

If you're playing a multi-system map with 10 players - just say the one I mentioned in the previous post - what would your fleet be composed of as a TEC? My concern is, I dunno if I should just leave some of my systems alone, without any ships there. If I dun do so, I end up having to split my fleet smaller and smaller to cover all the systems. I only have 3 at the moment, and it is already cutting my defensive fleet quite thin (I allocated 750 points in this fleet, for the rest 1750 points, I made up 2 fleets as attacking force. BTW, I chose large fleet size in the game option).
End of quote

What I usually do is maximise the static defenses around all the planets linking to the star, and my single defense fleet consists of just long range frigates (whether I'm playing TEC or not) to minimize the fleet points spent and maximize survivability, since they can hide behind all the turrets and among the 3-4 repair bays. But I find that most often the AI attacks the system I'm currently engaged in, once I leave my "home" system and start attacking AIs and capturing planets in another system, it's those new colonies that get all the action and my big fleet just happens to be in the neighborhood :) Is this also the case for you, or do you get your fully conquered home system frequently attacked while you're fighting in another?

3rd question (I feel myself annoying already, hehe). Do I need a broadcast center in every planet I colonize? I mean, since culture doesn't seem to go to another system, if I solely own a system, I only really need to build one in one of the planets, right?
End of quote

Personally, I feel that one on each planet is a waste of money. Culture has a range longer than one jump, so I usually spread them out quite a bit. Some of the AIs like to build 4-5 of these around a single planet, which requires me to do the same to beat them back. Basically the way culture works is its rate of spread gets cut every time it passes a planet. If you build one center, it will usually run out of steam after 2-3 jumps and crawl too slow to spread much farther. If you build 4 centers, it will be able to spread past the 2-3 jumps much faster because you're generating 4x as much. So, there's no magic formula for how many to build. Play it by ear. Make sure all of your planets are covered for the economic bonuses, but don't settle on a strict "1 center per x planets". If you see that it's crawling too slowly towards some part of the map, build a few there. Things like that :)

My last question (finally :) ) is, how do you do smart ping as said in the manual? I want to tell my allies I'm going to attack this place, have you send in some troops too if avail. Or I want them to come defend my planet. I know it is not really useful as allies may not come, or coming too late, but it would be good if they get there in time. Not because my force is not enough,  I just want them to take the casualties for me (I know I am evil, lol). Anyway, I have this smart ping thing working sometimes and most not, especially when I want them to come to my planet. All shown in the action grid are the usual commands like planet development, building civilian things, etc. So, how to get this done correctly?
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To ping your allies, select any of their ships, and the three buttons for Attack/Defend/Move will show up in the action grid like you say. They all seem to be focused around planets, so when you give these orders you're basically asking the AI to go to a specific planet. So showing them to attack an enemy fleet around your planet wouldn't work because it will try to "attack" your planet, so you'd need to ask them to defend. Giving a move request before the enemy gets there might work, I don't use it much but I seem to remember that they don't stick around very long after the move. Also note that you can't see the alliances the AI formed, so even though he's allied with you, he might also be allied with the one attacking you ;)

 

Hope this helps :)

 

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

You said "(they retreated after a while, although I dun know why." and I was responding to that.

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

Thanks all for replying. I think I really know how to play this game now. :)

apricotslice:

Thanks again. They actually retreated before their first cap was destroyed, if my memory is correct. Who knows what the AI's logic is?

 

Just some thoughts: I kinda feel that an invisible phase link attaching all the stars together a bit strange. Well, it gives me a feeling that you explore or attack a system from the inside (?). I created our Solar System with forge in that map I mentioned, and it feels weired watching your enemies jumping straight to Sun. First target, Mercury. Oh well, just some silly thoughts, I think I will just leave it at that.