I being to see why how weak the TEC are/caps

TEC is Rusher. Think ZERG in Starcraft. Build economy really fast. Buy a LOT of TRADE PORTS. TEC has a very strong FRIGATE force. SUCKY capital ships yes. But very strong FRIGATE force. CHEAP too.

Never really noticed but I play TEC all the time, usual just use kol, the one that can colonize, and a support ship depending on what my enemy is using, ie. lots of enemy bombers=carrier with fighters. But I usual have a capital ship group for backing up attacked planets and hitting weak points then use a HUGE amount of frigates against anything that poses a threat at my borders. of course I get pwned when facing more than two players(that are on my borders anyway)

I finished the map last night with the AI giving up (I guess).  I was shocked at the number of credits I had. 

Against the computer, try multiple Dunovs.  The firepower isn't great, but with the shield heals, your capships are very hard to kill.  The downside is that it's single heal, and as you level it up, it stops being useful on most frigates.

Every race has different playing styles

vasari having a vast advantage late game (phase gates)

Advent having the strongest antimatter abilities (if used in right combo... + fighter force can be game-ending)

TEC having the strongest economy, and cheap ships (having a TEC that focusses on support ships as an ally wil mostly result in your team winning)

Cap ships should not be seen as omega-ships, theyre just big command ships with powerfull ablilites that... if used correctly can turn the tide... see them as support ships... super support ships....

yes capital ships can be spammed, but the main reason i never lost to a cap ship spam is becuase it sucks, yes.. having 12 cap ships healing. aiding shooting... it helps... but its not enough to counter a fleet made with the same amount of recources, time  (dont forget cap ships need that extra fleet research... wich is prolly the biggest reason it doesnt work)

there a way to get the lame AI to build more shipyards?????...  I always end up having to wait forever for them to actually attack me.  Note too I made personal mods and pretty much everyone gets x3 the standard resource/income for getting a lil more action going.

I acutlly veiw them as command ships but just feel they are kind of weak because they are such as 'easy target'.  Since you can only build only so few of them I feel that the best way to take them out should be either other cap ships or heavy cruisers. The whole point defense systems that intercept incoming fighters and missles. (well kol does have that assume flak busters) but can be overwhelemed by heavy weapons carried by heavy cruisers and other cap ships.

A good example I just finished a game as the advent.  I was agaist two AI and had one allie.  I went to the last planet which was pretty heavly gaurded.  They had 2 kols, 3 of the danova,  I think 2 Carriers. (all  level 7 and 8) Now granted I only one because the allies showed up. 

But it just felt to easy to kill them.  My idea is just make them strong agaist frigates.  Now that is not to say neaf everything frigates or super power the caps.  Just make them strong agaist frigates.  I know it seems like when they (any game) fix something they go over the top.  Like super neaf somthing.  Say take 3 things away from something rather then just take one thing away or up one thing. 

Overall the game feels pretty balananced.

On a side note I understand why some people think repulse is broken.  I think its cool but just seems kind of overpowerd.

Let me put it to you this way, in the online multiplayer game the experienced players almost never play TEC.  If someone on my team is choosing to play TEC I get concerned and might ask them in /w about their reasons for wanting to play TEC.

So are the ones that play TEC really good?  Or just don't know better.  Other then that cannon late game they just don't seem like they can hold there own.  But who knows the next patch could always change that. 

I must say I like the Vasari the best.  Advent is pretty cool but the voice acting drives me nuts.  That they need a lot more micro and I am not as good at that at this time. They on the other hand have things like Cleancing Brillance and Malice. 

Question, how was malice different before?  I have hard it could take out whole fleets when combined with CB.  Can it still do that maybe I have not gotteen the timing down.

The Advent is very powerful and I choose whether I want Advent or Vasari based on the size of the map and whether or not I'd want to have the option of getting RA up.

I think Malice used to affect an unlimited amount of ships in a given radius around the mothership for about 20 seconds or so (now it's just 10) and that the damage percentage increased as the abilty leveled up (10-20-30).  The damage was applied immediately.  The problem with all of this is that it caused computers to lag, so it's a flat 30% affecting more ships (8-16-24) ships (as the ability levels up) and only lasts 10 seconds and now the damage is calculated and applied at the end of the 10 seconds.

Okay, that makes sense.  I have never played the game prior to the latest patch so I could not understand how videos I have watched were working the way they were.

Both seem to be very powerful.  Which one is better.  I think they are evenly matched and it comes more down to how you play and how the other guy plays. 

 Jose when you were fighting the vasari were you killing the subverters and the overseers first.  I remember the first time I played against  Vasari and I knew little of the Vasari, so I am destroying a Cap and all of a sudden it goes from like 10 hullpoints to 2000 or something like that.  WTF, I had no clue what had happened, I did not realize how fast those overseers can stack hp. And a single subverter can disable several of your ships. several of them can keep your fighting ships -except Caps- disabled constantly.  So the lesson I learned was kill subverters and overseers that are within range before tackling the fighting ships or the battle will be lost even if one has fleet point parity or slight superioty.

The cap ships are all about support, and augmenting your forces, except for the battleships It is pretty much the same for all of the factions. Whatever factions cap ship advantage over another faction is just minor. Nobody is going to win games using only cap ships.

TEC are mainly about spamming expendable attrition units. TEC units are below average shield, average HP, and average to mediocre DPS, but the thing that makes TEC so special is once you get your economy, and infrastructure going you are next to unstoppable, Because you can quickly, and easily replace your battle losses. The trick for TEC is surviving the early game rushes. God help you if the game gets so far as your TEC opponent manages to research pervasive economy, novalith, and insurgency. I would be looking for allies if that situation happened to me.

Vasari has more HP, and DPS in the early game, They do have the deadliest cruisers in game, because of their abilitys. You need to use that advantage to defeat a skilled TEC player. If you wind up in a long protracted fight get your gates up as quickly as you can, and use Dark Armada. Not to build a fleet, but as an emergency fallback option to get more ships in a battle quickly. The only bad thing about DA is the random ships that spawn. So its a roll of the dice on what kind of firepower you get. Still, it can make a big difference in a tough situation. With Vasari you hit TEC hard, and hit em early.

Advent are all about shields, psi tech, and fighter spam. They have some weak DPS, but how they can disable, and in some cases turn your own units against you more than makes up for that disadvantage. 3 projenitors and a nice wing of guardians almost guarentees they wont scratch the chrome on those ships. With the 1.1 changes the fighter spam got even more insane. Almost like the advent just sit back and let the fighters do all the work, and if ships get close blammo here comes the psi tech abilitys. What?! Half of our kodiaks turned traitor?! WTF..

The kill the support frigs is a give in no matter whos faction they are. I guess the whole point is it depends on what faction you like best, because i see no huge advantage for anyone except for maybe TEC in the very late game if you let them get that far.

For those that know me from MP, you will know my stats (currently 120 wins). About 80-90 of those would be with TEC in a teams game. That was me taking down all 3 races. You have to know how to play with them, same as any other race. Someone who builds heaps of LRMs IS going to lose... Someone who builds a mixed fleet with HCs - that is going to hurt...

Indeed tech are weak compared to advent and vasary late game and in some other areas. But if you know what you doing you can do great things.

First of all your maxed out cap fleet should look somehting like this.

5 Kols: It's the stronger ship that can take the most damage because of it Phase sheild abilaty and finest hour. In adition now it's anty fighter abilaty come in handy very often in the beta.

4 Marza: Raze planet just awesome. And missile barage works now and hvaing 4 lvl 6 marzas will cause heavy damage to any enemy fleet. Althoug you need 4 and not just one like advent and vasary.

4 Dunovs: These ships are very very important to have in your fleet. If you do not have sufficient support you are fuck. sheild restore and Magnatize are your friends. I killed and advent lvl 10 carrier with just magnatize the otehr day. HE had so many strike craft it was unreal.

1 Akkan: Colonize duh. Buttargeting uplink it pretty sweet gives you that little extra range and chance to cause dmg. and Ion bolt always nice to have to stop the enemy cap from jumping out and insuring it dies.

2 Sovas: Now this is the uselest Tec cap ship. It's got interrestign abilaties but it does nothing to realy help your fleet out. I always build these 2 last and sometimes i swap them out for Dunovs.

Now for frigates:

Hoshikos, Hoshikos, Hoshikos are a TECs fleet best accets and backbone. Don't attempt to fight the enemy with out a good number of these. AT end game I ahve 50 of thouse out. At early game i normaly pump out 20 as fast as possible. I try ti keep a 50% ratio of Hoshikos to other ships early game until i reach 50 Hoshikos. AND GET THE DEMOLITION BOTS!!!!! VERY USEFULL ABILATY.

Cielos are your 2nd best buddies. Only need 20 of them.

Other then that build your combat fleet the way you like it. I for one use every unit in the TEc arsenal except for the seige frigates. IF you spam just one unit time you'll probably still die.

People pump out heaps of capitals as if they are a god send. The more you have, the slower they level up. 3 Kodiaks and a few hoshikos cost less then a capital. And will take it down with some of them surviving...

You would do better with 40-50 Kodiaks in the fleet instead of all of those caps. But I DO agree about the hoshikos plus a few cielos. And throw in a heap of fighters/bombers for hitting power...

Yeah i know But i just like to build them againts cpus. In online fights i rarely get to 6 caps.

Defeating a hard AI on a small map is the most easy task for TEC compared to the other races in my opinion.

One reason is the Marza (i hope i spelled it right this time), wich gives a very early tool to deal efficiently with enemy colonies. The other one is the cheap LRF (Vasari:400, Advent:380, TEC:275) reachable with a medium technology investment (as opposed to Illums, not as fast as Assilants but the cost factor gives an edge). This gives especially with modular architecture an edge in production (significantly reduced structure cost).

For larger maps you get really early access to trade ports. Another huge leap in performance is made when the LRF get upgraded with AOE damage, boosting the LRF performance significantly.

I wish there was another level of ship that would be a step larger than the capital ship.  Make them a bit more heavily armed, add some additional special abilities....etc.  Make them VERY expensive and time consuming to build.  Maybe even use another size ship yard to make them.  I just think it'd be fun to have more to do at end game other than the super weapons.  I'm excited about the starbases in Entrenchment.   

TEC can hold thier own, but one on one thier ships are inferior.  It's that advantage in numbers that they get due to the fast track economics that that give them the edge they need.  Now, if you wait until late game there's a good chance you'll get your rear end handed to you.  The secret is to defeat your opponents while you can still enjoy the advantages your superior numbers give you.  Once the enemy can keep up with your production you're doomed.

Acutlly no not when I first played agaist the vasari.  I do know however, that it does not matter the race, kill those support ships so you can get to the rest of the fleet.

1)TEC have the strongest economy.  If you look at Advent, they get trade ports with NO upgrades and a single system (last I checked) one per system version of refineries which take most of the tech tree to be really worth the build time.  They are reasonably structure efficient, but are painfully weak compared to the rest.  Vasari get trade port upgrades, but not refinery upgrades.  TEC get cargo upgrades that boost both.

2)Kodiaks are in my experience, the ONLY ship that can effectively hit a smaller, fleeing fleet and decimate them before they leave.  Do not underestimate mobility.  Often you have to activate the power manually to use it when and how you want, but it's a small price for a very nasty power.

3)In a fair fight, ship to ship, no upgrades, without support craft, TEC are arguably the weakest race, and their cap ships can be ... lackluster.  That said, their support craft are excellent, and as I said, maneuverability is worth a lot.  IIRC, for a pure Kodiak fleet, you can even use the power to reduce overland reinforcement times, giving you a LIMITED piece of the action that has always been assumed to be Vasari only.

4)a good TEC economy should be able to safely operate at one level of fleet upgrade higher than it's competition (all other things being equal).  That means you should be able to bring more total firepower to bear.

On a smaller map, TEC are said to be a rush side.  On a larger map, if you spend your time preparing for the 'inevitable' TEC rush (knowing your enemy is TEC), you may find they go for a fast overwhelming economy and just bury you with it.

Having said all of this, the cadence of a multiplayer game tends to be such that the crushing TEC economy does not often get a chance to stagger from it's knees before getting beat down by an LRM rush, and TEC are not at present my faction of choice... but there is what they DO have going for them (other than their support craft, and preference in support craft is highly personal and down to taste)

That is why if you are a Vasari player you need to hit TEC hard, and hit them early, because if you let them get their economy tech's they will be able to out build you, and overwhelm you by sheer force of numbers. Its like dealing with a swarm of bees. One wont hurt you, but 1000 will.

I decided I would play another game as the TEC and after that another as the advent.  So far I am really missing my phase missles, and having less ships standing by for pirates.  On the other hand spamming LRMS is a lot of fun. 

Exactly.  Even the THREAT of the TEC economy limits their opponents' options.  You NEED to hit them hard or if they went econ, they will crush you.  If you are playing random and GET TEC, you may be able to bring some of that economy to bear in time to fend off incoming attackers AND be able to sustain the fleet levels for longer (depending on the other players' strategies until their scouts find you).

Unfortunately... their ability to hit hard straight out of the gate is ... less than inspired, so if that early swarm hits you, you will have a hell of a fight on your hands to fend them off long enough for your unstoppable industrial military complex to get rolling.  If you have half as many planets as them at that point, you are still in deep.  They bloom late, but they bloom hard.  It's kind of like playing Chaos in Dawn of War.  You can do impressive things if you live long enough... and that is a BIG if.