any reason to not get the beta patch?

The major issue with the beta patch is the keybinds/achievements getting erased. You'll want to back up your files (in the user path/Setting, called achievements and uimappings) so once we get the final patch, you can copy the files back and keep your keybinds and achievements.

The other is that not a lot of people are playing 1.095 MP, if that's your thing.

Otherwise, it's very stable and bug-free.

i dont have any keybindings , and havent moved on to multi player yet , so i guess i might as well get it .

I have found the latest beta patch to be quite solid (other than losing my space ponies achievement, but I might just edit that back).  You CAN edit back your achievements, though giving yourself achievements you didn't ACTUALLY achieve is exceedingly lame.  Keymappings is a matter of backing up the files.  If you do those two things, game on!

The OTHER bad news, however, is that most stat sheets (which are VERY useful for determining counters and such) are for 1.05.  You'll be hard pressed to find a 1.095 stat sheet, since those who would put the work in for such things find the numbers just change every beta version for balance reasons, so it's a catch-up game that takes many times the time of making one for the current nonbeta build.

If you play the real Sins game--online multiplayer--few people are playing the Beta patch online.  As far as I know almost all of the action is for 1.05.

*Sigh*

Single player SoaSE is just as valid as multi-player SoaSE.

You are not 'elite' for playing online.

So quit making snide remarks.

I mean, really! We're all a part of the same community - we don't need any god damned segregation, that crap destroys communities.

And before you argue - yes - you made a snide remark: "If you play the real Sins game--online multiplayer...". Frankly, it was uncalled for, so shame on you (lol).

Sorry to mini hijack the thread... back to topic!

Yep yep, beta is fine, you'll just be missing out on a little bit of polish; but hey, atleast it gives you some time to get used to the next patch before it hits! .

-Itharus

been playing the beta over the last couple of days , seem's good .

Just ignore him?  Who cares what he thinks is the real Sins game?  Doesn't even deserve a response.

On topic; as a single player Sins player I've found the beta versions to be extremely stable and a better version of the game than 1.05, fill yer boots.

Is there any indication of the proper release date for 1.1 yet?

No concrete date. Beta 3 is going to be released today, and apparently a Beta 4 towards the end of the month. That's supposed to be the final beta before the full patch release. No idea what's in Beta 4, but considering the list of changes between Beta 2 and 3 and the lack of broken stuff in Beta 2, that makes me think it's something new-ish.

As a new Sins player, I'm torn as to what to do.  I want to play with the latest version as it is supposed to greatly improve the AI and balance, but I also want to play with some of the great mods that I've seen people praise, like Sins Plus for the extra planet types and Bailknight's graphics mod, but they don't work with the new patches.

Would you guys recommend a new player play an old version with the mods or the new version without the mods?

New without the mods. Although Bailknight's GFX mod makes the game a thousand times prettier, and the AI is still an astounding coward, the carriers are better the balance is much nicer. I attacked an enemy fleet today and actually LOST SHIPS! It was great.

Thanks.  Hopefully people will update their mods when the non-beta patch is released.  The little pew-pew-pew pellet guns my captal ships fire makes me laugh now that I've seen youtube video of the guns after the graphics mod.  It's like watching an Iowa class battleship fire a spitball.

Haha pretty much. I hope Bailknight (or someone!) updates his mod to work in 1.1. Oh how I miss its splendor!

I never said it was "invalid", but I don't think you can have as challenging of an experience in single player.  Isn't that what a strategy game is about--outwitting your opponents?

I never said nor implied that, but my money is on your average experienced online multiplayer player to beat the snot out of someone who has an equal amount of experience playing the game in single player.  (Interpret that fact anyway you want.)

I like making snide remarks and I like to say what I think.

We're all part of the broad Sins community but the online multiplayer community is a legitimate community of its own.

INCOMING TRANSLATION:

Translation: "I never said it was "invalid"... but it is."

Translation: "I never said I was elite... but I am."

Translation: "I'm an opinionated prick."

Translation: "We all play the same game, but you still aren't part of my group."

CenturionJixra is PURE AWESOMESAUCE, and I hope to be half that 1337 someday.

Rhedd_V -- Lol.  Yes, I am an opinionated prick and proud of it.

I guess I have a hard time understanding how you guys can take pleasure playing against predictable and unimaginative AI opponents.  Doesn't it get boring after a while?  Don't you want to play the game with a sense of urgency and intensity over the prospect that you could get outsmarted and lose and that, thus, every move counts and you don't have much room for a strategic blunder?  Is it really fun if you just thump the hapless AI all the time?  Is it fun if the only way the AI has a chance is to allow it to cheat (Unfair level)?  Wouldn't it be nice to have allies that you can actually talk to (sometimes folks even get on voice comm)?  Wouldn't it be fun to make some online friends and to have a sense of camraderie? 

I really do wonder if you guys know what you're missing.  It's true that online multiplayer is about playing a more challenging and intense game, but the social aspects are also valuable.  At least come online and play humans v. AI comp stomps.

I never said I was a single-player player... but I am.

Since your question sounded honest, I'll honor it with an answer.

I know what I'm missing, because I've played plenty of multiplayer.

Yes, it gets boring playing the AI.

Yes, I wish I had a fantastic opponent that knew how to use innovative tactics and gave me a fun, unpredictable game.

No, I don't get that when I play MP.

Now, I'm not speaking of this game, in particular, because honestly I've never played THIS game online. However, reading the forums it's not hard to tell that it's just like every game I have played online, and that's not surprising, since people are people are people, no matter what the game.

Single-player versus multiplayer is a tradeoff, and I think it's a lopsided one.

Playing multiplayer I supposedly get a smarter opponent, but what I really get is one that likes to spam one unit that's been proven to be the best, or rush wildly to win the game within the first ten seconds, (because a win is a win and if you can't stop a rush you're a noob that deserves to lose) or carefully practices some lame technique, no matter how inappropriate to the game setting.

The end result is amost always that the game suddenly has a quarter as many units as it should (Because only a noob would build the other 3/4!), and is in many ways more predictable in its tactics than in single-player!

And then there's immersion... When I'm playing Company of Heroes, for instance, I'm not just engaging in a competitive activity for the sake of winning. I'm playing to be immersed in the setting of WWII. That means that I'm not going to have fun facing down Ranger spam, or a whole army of nothing but Kettenkrads, or whatever other stupid tactic is in fashion this week, no matter how challenging or effective it is.

I'm not going to have fun if it's over after my starting unit killed his starting unit faster than it killed mine, or vice-versa.

So, if you can find me an opponent that plays the game to have fun and actually enjoy the setting, and can do that at any time of the day or night, any day of the week, and doesn't mind stopping at any time so I can eat or indulge any other whim I have, then I'll enjoy MP as much as I enjoy SP.

Until then, I'll just have to put up with the (theoretically) sub-par AI, and go on thinking I'm getting a pretty good deal.

TRANSLATION: "People say that real people are smarter than the AI, but I have yet to see that be true."

Sorry CenturionJixra,

I'm not really trying to rag on you directly, it was just the attitude of the post that irked me (it happened to be the last of several of that vein that I had read that day - so said squeak got the grease).

I do understand what you are saying about multi-player, the human element is fun to deal with (sometimes, lol), and I do indulge in multiplayer from time to time with a few select individuals, and I enjoy the hell out of it.

But to be honest? Rhedd_V has taken many of the words right out of my mouth. Writing any further on this thread may as well be a quote of the second half of his post in Reply #18 (from "Playing multiplayer..." down).

Again though, on the forums I'm opposed to segregating people by which 'camp' they play in. I think it negatively affects things, in particular - new players/forum-goers. Alienation is a bad thing (so is 'Alien Nation' - hah!).

-Itharus

(/hijack)

You're not going to find that offline...

What exactly do you not get when you play online multiplayer?  The fun part, the innovative tactics part, or the unpredictable part?

The early-game rushing can mostly be avoided by playing large maps where the ratio of planets to players is high; for the most part it's not a huge problem.

The reason why long-range frigates and fighting heavy cruisers get spammed is because those are the ships that do damage to enemy ships and thus they should be the primary components of a fleet, but smart players also build other ships as support ships (strikecraft carriers, ships that disable other ships or heal, etc.).

However, the game is about much much more than what ships you build.  It's about how you use the ships you've built, where and when you attack, what technologies you research, how you manage your economy and the spread of your culture, how much you're scouting out your opponents, helping your allies, etc.

But there's so much more to the game and its tactics than what kinds of ships you build...

Well, you do have to make certain sacrifices to play the game online as with any online multiplayer game.  In general, a 3v3 on the large random single star only takes about an hour-and-a-half to be decided.

Let's just put it this way.  Just about anyone who's an experienced online multiplayer can crush the Hard AI.  Does that make them smarter than the AI?  I'll leave it to you to reach the logical implication.

The MP part of this game isn't perfect mostly due to the possibility of suffering a minidump and also due to the difficulty of finding other people who are playing the type of game you want to play online.  However, if you're willing to put up with that and if you're willing to be patient and take your nooby lumps in order to learn how to play the game against thinking opponents, it can be a fulfilling experience.  I can't play the game in single player mode at all; it's just boring for me but I guess that's why they make chocolate ice cream and vanilla.

WHAT? What's wrong with vanilla! Vanilla rocks!  In fact I'm going to get some vanilla ice cream right now.....if any stores were open at the moment *sigh*. Fine then, I'll get some tomorrow and I will enjoy it! Vanilla soft served and hot fudge sounds good actually, or maybe a twist where I get both chocolate and vanilla! Best of both worlds, WOOT COLLEGE AND CHOICES!

Yes there are, but you still have to admit it sucks when you only see a small portion of ships a race/faction has in use. I believe the perfect MP experience for any RTS is one where all units in the game have equal value in combat. They may have radically different uses on the battlefield/space (depending on the genre), but if you don't have a certain unit in your army/fleet (again depending on genre) you can get screwed over by the other player who has the unit that the unit you don't have should have countered. This is just a very general idea.

I know that if you took this literally to the letter then the RTS would become a rock-paper-scissors game, but if you took the general idea and made it so that if a player spams 1, 2, or even 3 types of ships only or even just the overwhelming majority then he/she will get thoroughly raped by the better balanced opponent fleet then I think that would be a victory in terms of RTS MP. But that is only my opinion and it probably has several crucial flaws that always seem to walk hand in hand with perfection.