Colonly Caps, Overpowered, unbalanced.

from Sins Forums

The way it seems to me is and which makes sense is that Colonly caps are not surposed to be direct combat ships, but supportships.

However they end up doing more damage then most other Caps with standard weapons, and the Vasari and Advent colonly caps have great combat abilities to boot.

The abilities are extremly overpowered, while the TEC colonly cap isnt all that powerful with its abilities it does do better damage then any other ship but the Khol(for tec) yet it gets a single strike squadron which pushes it over and it actually does MORE damage then a khol if it builds a bomber squad.

I will use the Evacuator as an extreme example of how overpowered they currently are and how much NOT building one is a disadvantage which isnt made up in anyway by any other ship.

The Evacuator at level 1 with with nano disassember can destroy any other capitalship in game that is level 3.

Nano Disasssembler

Level 1

bypasses shields

600 damage over 20 seconds

Reduces targets armor by 2.

12 second recharge time

Lets compare this to the Khols Gauss Rail gun ablity.

Level 1

300 damage(since ships have 15% min shield mitigation its best damage is actually 255, its worst with 81% mitigation is 57)

Does not bypass shields is effected by shield mitigation.

Both are direct damage abilities, the one on a colonly cap does over twice as much damage and causes the target to take slightly more damage from other targets then the one on main line battleship.

Second, Vasari dont require a Colonly ship to capture neautrul astroids they can use scouts, which means building the Evacuator not only doesnt hurt them in anyway it gives them the most formidable capitalship killer in the game the ability to colonise planets and still retain the ability to caputure astroids.

There is NO reason for a vasari player to build any other ship starting off BUT the Evacuator.

The problem here is the same for the other races going Advent and then TEC, Tec having the least powerful Colonlycap loses the least going another type of ship, but even then it vastly sets them behind due to the extremly slow antimatter regen of colonly frigates, infact 2 colonly frigates still cant colonise as fast as a single COlonlycap due to antimatter regen speeds and there rather small pool which is negated after just 2 jumps.

 

It needs fixing and my suggestions are one or all of the following.

Remove strikesquadrons from Colonly Caps at level 1, start at level 3 instead.

Remove Planet Bombardment ability from Colonly Caps(if you build a colonly cap then you should have to spend on planet killing frigates, spend on another type of cap and you have to spend on colonly frigates). This is the suggestion I like the most.

Bring Abilities into balance, Either make othership abilities like the Khols Gauss ablity bypassshields so its on the same level or nerf things like Nanodisassembler.

Reduce the damage of colonly caps so they do the least damage of all the capitalship classes, meaning you need to build a supportfleet while you capture planets, rather then the 2-3 frigates which is all you need to send currently.

increase the Antimatter pool, or antimatter regen on Colonly Frigates so that they are a more viable option.

13,207 views 12 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

One would think that colony ships are so powerful because (flavor wise) they hold the future of your race, and (mechanically) they're usually the first cap ship people build. Free colonizer with a body to boot?  Sounds good to me. Now on the TEC Colony ship getting the short end of the Col Cap stick, it has Ion Bolt. Indeed the duration is EXTREMELY short but it if manually used on important targets, it comes in handy quite well. My only complaint is that it has a very brief (but fair) duration. Comparing this to The Evac's ND and the Progenitor's Malice, it does seem some what nuetered. But also realize that Target Uplink is more useful then it seems as the extra range and acuracy can help take out annoying fighters and moving targets. So really the Colony ships don't need to be debuffed so much as they need to balance out more. Because in an FFA between the three I'm sure the Evacuator would win, Progenitor would come in second and the Akkon would lose quickly.

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

I'll admit I've been confused by the boost to accuracy.  Short of some stats I read a while back about flak having a less than 100% chance to hit strikecraft, I've always assumed that all other ships always hit.

So what does that increased chance to hit really translate to?

Elemental: Reforged
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

Colony captials, however, are the slowest of all the capital ships. You also need to consider the fact that battleship capitals don't stay level 1 for very long if they are frequently in combat. At max level, they carry 2 squadrons themselves, and the colony caps carry 3. At that point, the battleship caps have more Hull and Shield points, have a significantly higher DPS, and generally can hold their own better than the colony capitals. Although the Egg's Disassembler does kill capitals easily, outside of that ability, its damage figures, in short, really really suck, even with a 15% damage bonus from culture.

Check your mitigation figures: all ships start with 15% and frigates max out at 57%, capitals at 65% at level 1, increasing by 1.111% per level to a maximum of 75% (Advent ships can gain another 10% from culture and research).

Oh, and FYI: Ion Bolt used on a Subverter cancels the effects of Distortion Field on your ships... just make sure you hit the first Subverter that used it on a group of ships (the second to use DF on the same group of ships really does nothing).

Targeting Uplink... well, with a 15% bonus to chance to hit with a 100% accuracy anyway... it makes zero difference except for flak. However, it can offset the penalty incurred in asteroid fields (Erratic Debris ability causes all ships to have 20% lower accuracy) and the effects of the Rapture's Vertigo (30% penalty to accuracy). The real benefit of the Uplink is the extra 20% range in order to get the first shot off with Javelis LRM frigs. With research and an Akkan with max Uplink, the LRFs can gain an extra 32% range.

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting InfiniteVoid, reply 3

Oh, and FYI: Ion Bolt used on a Subverter cancels the effects of Distortion Field on your ships... just make sure you hit the first Subverter that used it on a group of ships (the second to use DF on the same group of ships really does nothing).
End of InfiniteVoid's quote
I find that SO annoying. Distortion Field shouldnt be a channeling ability

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Mazuo, reply 2
I'll admit I've been confused by the boost to accuracy.  Short of some stats I read a while back about flak having a less than 100% chance to hit strikecraft, I've always assumed that all other ships always hit.

So what does that increased chance to hit really translate to?
End of Mazuo's quote

Basically when you ships are mvoving and firing at ships that are also moving and firing there's a percent chance to hit, Target uplink greatly increases that chance to hit making everything much easier to destroy.

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Seth_Dracovitch, reply 5

Quoting Mazuo, reply 2I'll admit I've been confused by the boost to accuracy.  Short of some stats I read a while back about flak having a less than 100% chance to hit strikecraft, I've always assumed that all other ships always hit.

So what does that increased chance to hit really translate to?

Basically when you ships are mvoving and firing at ships that are also moving and firing there's a percent chance to hit, Target uplink greatly increases that chance to hit making everything much easier to destroy.
End of Seth_Dracovitch's quote
Except ships dont move and fire... At least not any appreciable amount

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

Eh, I've seen some of my ships shoot while closing in at close range, unless I was seeing things.

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

speed is a big factor of the colony caps. I mean I like using one as the Command Ship in any of my fleets, but it slows the entire fleet way down. Meanwhile the player that sticks to the faster assault caps can get the better flanking positions. I would just have the egg follow behind the main fleet, but i get terribly lazy in the mid and late game, and its firepower is far too important in the early game to dick around like that.

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

I would tend to agree with the OP.  The Evacuator and the Progen are extremely powerful combat ships in addition to being able to colonize.  It is really hard to not choose these ships as your first capital.  The Akkan is probably where it should be in overall power / utility.

Also, the colony caps ARE slower, but not much.  In the first couple patches, they were slower than they are now, and it was very noticeable.  LRF's were also faster, so in short, it was extremely easy to hunt down colony caps.  Now it isn't that noticeable.

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

Basically when you ships are mvoving and firing at ships that are also moving and firing there's a percent chance to hit
End of quote

Is this hardcoded?  Because I've certainly never seen anything in the ship files that evidence such a behavior.

Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Mazuo, reply 10

Basically when you ships are mvoving and firing at ships that are also moving and firing there's a percent chance to hit
Is this hardcoded?  Because I've certainly never seen anything in the ship files that evidence such a behavior.
End of Mazuo's quote

I don't think this is the case. Actually I'm pretty sure ships always hit, even when moving.

Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top

Personally, I'd hate to see the caps nerfed.  I do like the OP's suggestion that they remove the bombbardment ability from the colony caps.  If that's not possible with the current code, I'd say they remove the colony ability from teh cap ships, give the colony caps a different support ability, and then alter the colony frigates.  Make the colony frigate the ONLY early game option for expansion, then add a colony cruiser. 

The colony frigate can pretty much stay in it's current form, but alter the antimatter by either lowering the cost of the colonize ability, or give it a bigger pool.  The colony cruiser could be a tougher alternative to the frigate.  Make it strong versus frigates, give it a decent hull/shield, and maybe add a few defensive special abilities.  These abilities could be something like a field around the ship that decreases damage from beams or lasers, an ability that acts as an anti-missle system to decrease damage taken from missiles, an ability that increases the antimatter costs of all abilities within a certain range of the ship....  I'm sure a lot of defensive ability ideas could be thought up that would be apropriate.

How would that sound to the rest of you?