Micromanaging battles , Refinary vs Extration rate increase

Hey Guys ,

I have a couple of question.

1) Does Micro managing battles help. Will it turn a loss to a win.

I play sins on my 3yr old laptop(1.7GHz, 1.2Gb ram, and intel 915) You'll be suprised how well sins holds up on my crappy machine when I turn the details to low. But the frame rate goes away when I try to zoom into large fleet battles. So for the most part I just stay zoomed out and let the computer play it out for me. I just watch, send additional ships if needed or issue the retreat cmd. I usually win against normal AIs but always lose to Hard AIs

2) Refinary vs Extration rate increase

So early on the best way to increase your resources is colonisation. But after all the neutral planets are gone and your in the war prepartion phase, which is a better way to increase your resources. Building orbital refinaries or spending on mineral extration rate increase tech. I know varsai are forced 3 lvls of extraction rate increase before they can research refinaries. But TEC and Advent can do it just after 3 research stations. The first extration tech (400-600 credits, 0-50 metal,100 crystal) is actually cheaper then a refinary I think.

 

I like to hear your opinions and experience on these topics.

3,000 views 9 replies
Reply #1 Top

Micromanaging battles can be useful I think.  I like to focus fire on enemy ships, especially capital ships.  Against the advent you almost have no choice but to focus fire in late game battles because their fleets use area of effect healing.

Focusing fire means that not all of your ships may be able to utilize all their firepower (since things can get crowded), but it means you will take out their means of retaliation faster.  So I dont really know the full benefits vs costs of micromanaging your firepower.  Against capital ships I feel it is worth it.

I rarely micromanage abilities, unless I want my AI to hold back their usage of a specific ability in favor of another one.  In that case I just turn off the autocast for the one I dont like.

Reply #2 Top

Micro managing is pretty useful. Subverters, Guardians, and Hokinshos should be taken out ASAP and micro is good for this. Also, some abilities NEED to be microed. Leaving Distortion Field on autocast will cause multiple Subverters to use it on the same targets within a short time span, and since the effect does not stack it means you're wasting time.

Refineries are pretty much useless until late game. The cost of building refineries is larger than researching extraction bonuses, at least for Vasari, which I play almost exclusively. I only find them useful when there is an unusualy high concentration of resources around a particular planet (Refineries effect all planets 1 phase jump away from the one they are buil on, FYI).

Reply #3 Top

Managing

 

For large ship battles where's theres lots of ships shooting, and being shot, focus firing is a good way of killing cap ships, or that dammed ship who keeps reparing every one else. Another thing that might not qualify as "micro" is setting the range of ships. A ship with good range should let the enemies come to it, so making them hold position if they're grouped together will help - just place them some where where they will be able to help, or move them manually when/if you have to.

 

Another ting that might be worth thinking about is the formation in which they're flying/standing still shooting stuff. The game automatically parks "tough" ships in front, and fragile ships in the background. But how they line up is based on where they're comming from, so making sure you get this right will keep your fleet alive and shooting for longer.

 

More can be said about moving around, one thing annoying me is simply that identical ships will "line up" of form a wall if you have enough of them. While this is great if you can be certain where the enemies will come from it will be a disadvantage in a really messy situation, where the ships you're trying to shoot have your wall surrounded. You can "fix" this by moving them in small groups to roughly the same area, this will "box" the ships together more, giving less weak spots. The same thing can be said if you got a ship with a nifty ability, and want to keep all the other ships in range.

 

Now just randomly sending ships into battle works if you send enough, managing a coordinated attack will make it more effective. Keeping your eyes peeled on a single planet takes your focus away from everything else though.

 

A lot more could be said about managaging. But something works for you, and something doesn't. This seems "like a learn by doing" thing.

 

During some extensive tests of TEC capital ships, I found that even if you only got a single ship in combat, deciding what it should do, or not do, can do a huge difference.

The only ship interesting to talk about right now is the Akkan Class Battlecruiser. It's a colonization vessel, so I wasn't expecting much from it. I was, however, wondering what the Armistice* ability could do for it.

*Armistice will make a tempoary cease fire, preventing any ships nearby, including it self, from shooting, or using  abilities.

 

How I tested was by letting a snigle ship, in this case, a single Akkan Battlecruiser lvl 8, fly to a pirate base I had left untouched.

 

I did this 3 times.

 

First, the Armistice ability was on autocast. It ended up not being able to shoot anything, so for some reason it flew randomly around, and ended up very close to the planet, and got it self shot up by multiple cannons, and ships that quickly swarmed it. I estimate that it killed 10% off all enemy resistance present before blowing up.

 

Second time I managed the Armistice ability, and made it hold it's position. Though not a sucess it did preform a lot better this way. I estimate that it killed 50% of the enemy ships before blowing up.

 

Third time I disabled autorecast and I didn't activate it my self either, this surprisingly enough worked better than first time, as it killed around 20% of the ships before blowing up.

 

So even if there's only 1 ship to manage it might make a difference, and depending on the differences it just might not be worth the trouble anyway.

 

For large ship battles where's theres lots of ships shooting, and being shot, focus firing is a good way of killing cap ships, or that dammed ship who keeps reparing every one else. Another thing that might not qualify as "micro" is setting the range of ships. A ship with good range should let the enemies come to it, so making them hold position if they're grouped together will help - just place them some where where they will be able to help, or move them manually when/if you have to.

 

Another ting that might be worth thinking about is the formation in which they're flying/standing still shooting stuff. The game automatically parks "tough" ships in front, and fragile ships in the background. But how they line up is based on where they're comming from, so making sure you get this right will keep your fleet alive and shooting for longer.

 

More can be said about moving around, one thing annoying me is simply that identical ships will "line up" of form a wall if you have enough of them. While this is great if you can be certain where the enemies will come from it will be a disadvantage in a really messy situation, where the ships you're trying to shoot have your wall surrounded. You can "fix" this by moving them in small groups to roughly the same area, this will "box" the ships together more, giving less weak spots. The same thing can be said if you got a ship with a nifty ability, and want to keep all the other ships in range.

 

Now just randomly sending ships into battle works if you send enough, managing a coordinated attack will make it more effective. Keeping your eyes peeled on a single planet takes your focus away from everything else though.

 

A lot more could be said about managaging. But something works for you, and something doesn't. This seems "like a learn by doing" thing.

 

 

Earning your ORE!

The question of going for extractor upgrades or the orbital refineries is tricky. I normally just start with a few upgrades to the extractors - I have them anyway, and the first few levels of upgrades arren't that expensive. When I think that my economy is looking good, I'll research for the Orbital refineries. Once I've got them running the economy quickly starts looking better as well. This is when I normally work on the last extractor upgrades, and when they're done you can, if you're TEC continue by upgrading the cargohold capacity of trade/refinery ships, this also boots you economy somewhat.

Reply #4 Top

If you put Question marks at the end of those questions I'll try and answer them.

Reply #5 Top

concerning refineries: I personally do not find them particukarly worth the trouble, I mean, c'mon, all you get from a single one is usually a 0.1 increase in extraction rate? this is a mere fraction of a single normal extractor and it costs quite a bunch of resources to build them, and the research is also not so cheap. no, I really prefer the other types of reserch. may not produce that huge effects, but at least I do not need to waste resources and logistcs slots for it.

ahm, for some maths. lets say you research some extraction upgrades: a 10% increase, at, say 7 sources with an average rate of 0.45, gives you .45*7*0.1 = 3,15 * 0.1 ~ 0.31. an increase of .31 units, or the equivalent of a far away extractor. still way more you get than from a refinery (granted, refinery usually give you .1 for both res., but there are still the costs)

bottom line: I'd say I'm better off researching the upgrades and use the extra slots for trade ports with whose money I can buy them.

Reply #6 Top

At the right places, you can get extraction rates of 0.4 to 0.5 (of one or both ore types, not counting the extra 30% TEC Refinery Ships can get), certainly outdoing extractors at locations of low alleigance. Remember that extractors take advantage of every single owned extractor within one phase jump of the gravity well it is located in and that each built extractor can take advantage of 3 refineries (captured ones 4). Placing them at locations with lots of phase lanes to other planets/neutral locations with extractors generates this kind of extraction rate. Like Trade Ports, Refineries ignore alleigance.

They're not totally useless... but their main limiting factor is their low resource extraction rate...

Reply #7 Top

Quoting InfiniteVoid, reply 6
At the right places, you can get extraction rates of 0.4 to 0.5 (of one or both ore types, not counting the extra 30% TEC Refinery Ships can get), certainly outdoing extractors at locations of low alleigance. Remember that extractors take advantage of every single owned extractor within one phase jump of the gravity well it is located in and that each built extractor can take advantage of 3 refineries (captured ones 4). Placing them at locations with lots of phase lanes to other planets/neutral locations with extractors generates this kind of extraction rate. Like Trade Ports, Refineries ignore alleigance.

They're not totally useless... but their main limiting factor is their low resource extraction rate...
End of InfiniteVoid's quote

oh, I didn't it in that detail. i thought that the would exploit the ones that are there just more intensely, but if any refinery can work every extractor only like once it does explain things.

Reply #8 Top

The Trading Ports / Refineries are what make large empires practical.  When you're trying to expand out in the boonies with 30% allegience, all of a sudden trade ports / refineries are the only things that make such planets economically useful.

Back home in the 70%+ area, they're still useful, but you're right, you're much better off just upgrading extractor tech.

Reply #9 Top

No reason why you can't upgrade extractor tech AND make a refinery if you have a good spot.  Lets say you have enough credits where you are starting to buy minerals / crystal.  You are probably buying at approximately a 4-5 cr : 1 resource ratio.  If you can build a refinery that has access to 10 extractors (fairly easy to find a good spot like this on larger maps), it will bring in about 1 resource per sec, maybe more with research.  That 1 resource per sec is actually worth 4-5 credits per sec to you...or about 2-3 times what a tradeport income is worth credit wise.  So while it is more expensive to research and build, it can make you a lot more money.

Sometimes when I find a really good spot, I'll slap 3 refineries down.

If you are already overproducing resources and short on credits, they are not as valuable...but they still aren't bad.