I want my money back! » Forum Post by nicolasconte

You'll have to contact sales@stardock.com, they'll be back next week.

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A lot of the problems are not at Ironclad's end mind you. They're about to release a patch for sync problems as well.

Why are you so obsessed with online play anyway? I played Sins for over six months on a pc not good enough for online play and still enjoyed it.

ps. A minidump is not a crash, its a record of one - with the intention that you send the error report to support@ironclad.com (someone correct me if that address is wrong) so they can fix the bug if possible. The crash may have been caused at your end.

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You might want to wait a bit more though, 1.12 patch will be coming soon, that addresses the de-sync bug. A test version of the patch is also available: https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/331090/

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i cant see any game shop refunding you after you have had the game for so long tbh

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Quoting astrath,

reply 2

Why are you so obsessed with online play anyway? I played Sins for over six months on a pc not good enough for online play and still enjoyed it.

You enjoyed playing it in single player, but many other people would get bored with the predictable and unimaginate AI and long to play the real Sins game, which is, of course, online multiplayer.

I don't understand what the OP's problem was with playing the game online in v1.05. Lots of people played it online even if they couldn't host games.

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Conte....

If that's your nick I'm pretty sure your stats show well over 300 games played on ICO....and that was in June, when last I played you...pretty sure I've seen you on since I got back into it this month...

Is the idea that you were only playing those 300+ games while waiting for the patch, and therefore deserve a refund?

That's like buying a car, driving it 180,000 miles, and asking for a full refund because it hasn't lived up to expectations.

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about 80 percent of the games lasted either 5 seconds or ended with minidumps

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It's a good thing you thought of checking your computer for errors first before coming to the forums to bitch...

Oh... wait...

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Quoting nicolasconte,

reply 7

about 80 percent of the games lasted either 5 seconds or ended with minidumps

If thats true, I hope that you sent all those minidumps to support@ironcladgames.com because that would help them with all there desync bugs. That would also help you. Even I had desycn issues, I sent them the minidumps and later I had no more desync problems after that.

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Quoting Ke5trel,

reply 6

That's like buying a car, driving it 180,000 miles, and asking for a full refund because it hasn't lived up to expectations.

Actually based on Conte's original post, it sounds more like buying a car that idles fine in his driveway, but if he attempts to drive it on the road, it stalls after 1 mile. The dealership tells him there will be a fix in a few months and he decides to wait instead of returning the car now. Months later he takes the car to the dealership, gets the fix applied, and when he drives off the car stalls 1 mile down the road again.

Only a fool would keep that car and not seek a refund.

If the game was advertised as an online game, it should work that way out of the package. If the public is expected to finish the beta testing on any product they should get the product at a deep discount and should be offered a hassle-free, no questions asked return policy. Patches to plug new found problems caused by environmental changes after a product is released are considered maintenance. Patches to fix something that doesn't work the way it is supposed to means the product wasn't tested enough before releasing it.

Finally in reply to The_Regicide, considering what Conte describes he has been through, I don't think his original post should be called 'bitching' More like stating facts and politely asking for how to get a refund. Why people assume that your pc that was working perfectly for you with other applications must be the cause of a problem when a new application doesn't work is beyond me, and vendor support often takes this stance. As is common with vendor support when a new bug is discovered, I'll bet many people wasted hours troubleshooting their pc with Support being told there was something wrong with their pc or their network connection until enough of them with similar symptoms caused Support to take them seriously and turn the microscope around and discovered the bug in their software and started working on a patch.

I like to check the forums before I buy. Forget the ads and claims made by the manufacturer, you want to see how the product performs you ask the customer, not the seller.

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I said that because he obviously, like so many other clueless people, think that a minidump is a bad thing that crashes the game.

But the chicken wasn't here before the egg. The minidump is the result of your game crashing. It is a text file that says what the game was doing, what your system is, when it crashed and that sort of thing. When the game "minidumps", it means something bad happened, and if you want it resolved you better send the minidump to support. I have this feeling that conte didn't actually send a minidump to support...

And about your interpretation of the car analogy, it's not like that. Conte already said that 80% of the games were minidumped or desynced... Which sort of implies that the other 20% played fine. Meaning the car that probably drives on unleaded only drove perfectly fine, then the owner went to the gas station, pumped it full of leaded(either because he doesn't know he shouldn't, or doesn't know it's leaded), drove for a mile, stalled, died, towed it back. This then happened a dozen times more, but hey, he needs the car to get around. Finally, the tank is empty, and he goes to the gas station again. This time he pumps it full of unleaded. Car works fine! Tank empty? Go to gas station... pump it full of leaded... car stalls... ask for refund...

In normal circumstances, I'm sure he'd get his refund... but since these aren't normal circumstances, as the guy has the game for almost a pregnancy's timespan, and has played it online successfully at least 50 times, all bets are off... This is gonna be fun to watch!

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Quoting Annatar11,

reply 1

You'll have to contact sales@stardock.com, they'll be back next week.

We cant give you money but they might. I doubt it. But feel free to try.

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Quoting The_Regicide,

reply 11

I said that because he obviously, like so many other clueless people, think that a minidump is a bad thing that crashes the game.

But the chicken wasn't here before the egg. The minidump is the result of your game crashing. It is a text file that says what the game was doing, what your system is, when it crashed and that sort of thing. When the game "minidumps", it means something bad happened, and if you want it resolved you better send the minidump to support. I have this feeling that conte didn't actually send a minidump to support...

And about your interpretation of the car analogy, it's not like that. Conte already said that 80% of the games were minidumped or desynced... Which sort of implies that the other 20% played fine. Meaning the car that probably drives on unleaded only drove perfectly fine, then the owner went to the gas station, pumped it full of leaded(either because he doesn't know he shouldn't, or doesn't know it's leaded), drove for a mile, stalled, died, towed it back. This then happened a dozen times more, but hey, he needs the car to get around. Finally, the tank is empty, and he goes to the gas station again. This time he pumps it full of unleaded. Car works fine! Tank empty? Go to gas station... pump it full of leaded... car stalls... ask for refund...

In normal circumstances, I'm sure he'd get his refund... but since these aren't normal circumstances, as the guy has the game for almost a pregnancy's timespan, and has played it online successfully at least 50 times, all bets are off... This is gonna be fun to watch!

if you dont get paid my stardock for your posting i am really worried about you

of course i know minidump is just the error message, but it also became the common name for the game crashing, so for crying out loud stop bitching about that. and i only had 3 minidumps, but everyone else does and if you play a 3v3 and one dumps theres no sense in playing. but i bet all these people can play other games perfectly fine on their machines.

your comparison with the unleaded gas is just stupid and makes not sense

conte

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Quoting Duff Douglas,

reply 10

Quoting Ke5trel, reply 6
That's like buying a car, driving it 180,000 miles, and asking for a full refund because it hasn't lived up to expectations.

Actually based on Conte's original post, it sounds more like buying a car that idles fine in his driveway, but if he attempts to drive it on the road, it stalls after 1 mile. The dealership tells him there will be a fix in a few months and he decides to wait instead of returning the car now. Months later he takes the car to the dealership, gets the fix applied, and when he drives off the car stalls 1 mile down the road again.

Only a fool would keep that car and not seek a refund.

If the game was advertised as an online game, it should work that way out of the package. If the public is expected to finish the beta testing on any product they should get the product at a deep discount and should be offered a hassle-free, no questions asked return policy. Patches to plug new found problems caused by environmental changes after a product is released are considered maintenance. Patches to fix something that doesn't work the way it is supposed to means the product wasn't tested enough before releasing it.

Finally in reply to The_Regicide, considering what Conte describes he has been through, I don't think his original post should be called 'bitching' More like stating facts and politely asking for how to get a refund. Why people assume that your pc that was working perfectly for you with other applications must be the cause of a problem when a new application doesn't work is beyond me, and vendor support often takes this stance. As is common with vendor support when a new bug is discovered, I'll bet many people wasted hours troubleshooting their pc with Support being told there was something wrong with their pc or their network connection until enough of them with similar symptoms caused Support to take them seriously and turn the microscope around and discovered the bug in their software and started working on a patch.

I like to check the forums before I buy. Forget the ads and claims made by the manufacturer, you want to see how the product performs you ask the customer, not the seller.

very well said!

conte

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Quoting ,

quoting post

hi

i bought it to play online, which didnt work at, i waited all these month for the 1.1 patch, which was announced for mid of july.

i didnt play all summer and started again after 1.1 came out. did 4 or 5 games. 4 of them ended with sync problems and one minidump. so i paid for a something, that didnt get me what i was promised.

in a normal "real" shop i would go there and get my money back, so actually i expect the same from you!

so please tell me, how i return the game and get my money back

thanks

nicolas conte

I've seen you on multiplayer before, you joined a game which I hosted and that was on patch 1.05 after the summer in which you claim to have not been playing at all until patch 1.1 was released.....

So if you've already been lying in some of your post then why should we believe the rest.....

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[quote who="The_Regicide" reply="11" id="1956715"]I said that because he obviously, like so many other clueless people, think that a minidump is a bad thing that crashes the game.

But the chicken wasn't here before the egg. The minidump is the result of your game crashing. It is a text file that says what the game was doing, what your system is, when it crashed and that sort of thing. When the game "minidumps", it means something bad happened, and if you want it resolved you better send the minidump to support. I have this feeling that conte didn't actually send a minidump to support...

And about your interpretation of the car analogy, it's not like that. Conte already said that 80% of the games were minidumped or desynced... Which sort of implies that the other 20% played fine. Meaning the car that probably drives on unleaded only drove perfectly fine, then the owner went to the gas station, pumped it full of leaded(either because he doesn't know he shouldn't, or doesn't know it's leaded), drove for a mile, stalled, died, towed it back. This then happened a dozen times more, but hey, he needs the car to get around. Finally, the tank is empty, and he goes to the gas station again. This time he pumps it full of unleaded. Car works fine! Tank empty? Go to gas station... pump it full of leaded... car stalls... ask for refund...

In normal circumstances, I'm sure he'd get his refund... but since these aren't normal circumstances, as the guy has the game for almost a pregnancy's timespan, and has played it online successfully at least 50 times, all bets are off... This is gonna be fun to watch!
[/quote]:I said that because he obviously, like so many other clueless people, think that a minidump is a bad thing that crashes the game.

Dude you really dont have a clue. MiniDump is a bad thing it only happens if something very bad happens.

Yes it is only a report but it happening = something very bad so in short you get a minidump it is bad.

I sorta agree with everyone else about nicks refund. You cant keep it for a year and decide you dont like it and want your money back. If you bought it as a release which you didnt it would be different. But buying in advance to play before it is released is your own fault deal with it untill it is fixed.

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[quote who="nicolasconte" reply="13" id="1957535"]

Quoting The_Regicide,
reply 11
I said that because he obviously, like so many other clueless people, think that a minidump is a bad thing that crashes the game.

But the chicken wasn't here before the egg. The minidump is the result of your game crashing. It is a text file that says what the game was doing, what your system is, when it crashed and that sort of thing. When the game "minidumps", it means something bad happened, and if you want it resolved you better send the minidump to support. I have this feeling that conte didn't actually send a minidump to support...

And about your interpretation of the car analogy, it's not like that. Conte already said that 80% of the games were minidumped or desynced... Which sort of implies that the other 20% played fine. Meaning the car that probably drives on unleaded only drove perfectly fine, then the owner went to the gas station, pumped it full of leaded(either because he doesn't know he shouldn't, or doesn't know it's leaded), drove for a mile, stalled, died, towed it back. This then happened a dozen times more, but hey, he needs the car to get around. Finally, the tank is empty, and he goes to the gas station again. This time he pumps it full of unleaded. Car works fine! Tank empty? Go to gas station... pump it full of leaded... car stalls... ask for refund...

In normal circumstances, I'm sure he'd get his refund... but since these aren't normal circumstances, as the guy has the game for almost a pregnancy's timespan, and has played it online successfully at least 50 times, all bets are off... This is gonna be fun to watch!

if you dont get paid my stardock for your posting i am really worried about you

of course i know minidump is just the error message, but it also became the common name for the game crashing, so for crying out loud stop bitching about that. and i only had 3 minidumps, but everyone else does and if you play a 3v3 and one dumps theres no sense in playing. but i bet all these people can play other games perfectly fine on their machines.

your comparison with the unleaded gas is just stupid and makes not sense

conte
[/quote]

Very well said

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Dude you really dont have a clue. MiniDump is a bad thing it only happens if something very bad happens.

Yes it is only a report but it happening = something very bad so in short you get a minidump it is bad.

Dude dont be so over dramatic about minidumps. They are not that bad.

A minidump data report can just be a simple mistake to a desync error which is very rare for most people which is easily restetable manualy just by restarting the game which only takes a minute. I have had three desync erros and I dont care about getting a minidump once in a while, I just report it then continue on playing.

of course i know minidump is just the error message, but it also became the common name for the game crashing, so for crying out loud stop bitching about that. and i only had 3 minidumps, but everyone else does and if you play a 3v3 and one dumps theres no sense in playing. but i bet all these people can play other games perfectly fine on their machines.

Ok if you only had 3 minidumps stop complaing about not being able to play correctly I had more problem than you have. Even if someone leaves because of a minidump continue playing it happens to anybody so just play and have fun online.

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duff douglas explained it so well. if you dont get my point after reading this, your either a stardock groupie or you really dumb

conte

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Quoting nicolasconte,

reply 19

duff douglas explained it so well. if you dont get my point after reading this, your either a stardock groupie or you really dumb

conte

Or in complete and fundamental disagreement with the point itself.

+1

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Well theres a lemon law if you are making analogies for CARS. If the car continues to have problems for years you get your money back no matter haw many miles you drove it.

Plus my experience is that Vasari Ra does not work nor Advent Cap automatic upgrades to ten or TEC Nov... gun. After months of waiting Nobody debugged this version.

Meanwhile someone made millions of $ revenue. Follow the money.

Remember this is by the company that talks about the gamers "Bill of Rights". This game does not work properly, not as advertised, in either mode.

Hmm Maybe Nick has a point.

They need to correct this ASAP and someone has not done their job. I tried 1.09 nobody played it. If this was a business app, critical in my opinion, someone would be sued. This is like many folks opinion of GM automobliles but at least GM currently has Quality as good as Toyota based on measurements like 6 Sigma (6 Sigma something, in my opinion, Stardock has never heard of).

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I have never seen any shop refund money for digital sales! It just does not happen!

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ZubaZ

Join Date 11/2001

+890

I have never seen any shop refund money for digital sales! It just does not happen!

Stardock is known for providing better than average customer support. But then again . . you'd have to make a good arguement.

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I would advise closing this thread - its just turning into a shouting match between Conte and the rest of the forum

May I also point out that if you'd posted this on an EA forum it would have been deleted instantly. Get a sense of proportion before you start attacking Stardock and Ironclad.

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Quoting recode,

reply 21

Well theres a lemon law if you are making analogies for CARS. If the car continues to have problems for years you get your money back no matter haw many miles you drove it.

Plus my experience is that Vasari Ra does not work nor Advent Cap automatic upgrades to ten or TEC Nov... gun. After months of waiting Nobody debugged this version.

Meanwhile someone made millions of $ revenue. Follow the money.

Remember this is by the company that talks about the gamers "Bill of Rights". This game does not work properly, not as advertised, in either mode.

Hmm Maybe Nick has a point.

They need to correct this ASAP and someone has not done their job. I tried 1.09 nobody played it. If this was a business app, critical in my opinion, someone would be sued. This is like many folks opinion of GM automobliles but at least GM currently has Quality as good as Toyota based on measurements like 6 Sigma (6 Sigma something, in my opinion, Stardock has never heard of).

Well going with the Car analogy, cars are way more expensive, and i am pretty sure that the lemon law is in regards to used cars.

An actualy sins works really well compared to some games, i personaly have only had problems when i used mods, and tweek them myself. NEver once have i had any problems with the original version.

With Computer games its a given that there will be problems. With an Xbox or PS3 the hardware is all the same, game designers need to make sure it works only on those systems, where as a computer game needs to be able to run on all sorts of different systems.

And stardock and ironclad are trying to fix the problems ASAP, its just that ASAP takes a while, if you had any knowledge of programing you would know this. When something is wrong with the game it doesn't work correctly, it sometimes tells you where the problem is located, but it deson't tell you what is wrong. Whoever wrote the code obviously feels that they wrote it correctly, otherwise it wouldn't be in the game, so now they need to look through every piece of code and figure out what the error is and how to fix it. It is a very time consuming proscess and is really anoying to have to deal with.

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