6 x post roflcopter..

cough*  yeah tough.. carriers are way to strong,   im fine with them having 2 squads,   just make em a little bit more expenisive

(like 1000 cr)  and dont make advent even more expensive!!, they should have fighters as their main force, so why make em so expensive T_T?

ofcourse squads being to strong remains... flaks should do ALOT of damage vs squads,  if a squad enters a flak frigate's range it should atleast lose 1 or 2 units, cuase at the moment,  if's way cheaper getting your own carriers with fighter rather then building amassed flak frigates, cuase they wont do much, even if they do get into range....

so

1:  make flak ships totaly own squads (that's what theyre there for right???)

2: carriers have to be even more expensive since they house 2 squads,  having their price around 1000 cr 200 metal 180 crystal should be o.k.    and that's for all of the race's  just becuase a race house's more fighters/bombers per squad doesnt mean u should make their carriers more expensive!!  it just means that particular race uses squads alot

wich in turn means it has weaker ships of other classes (ever tried advent HC?  doesnt even get close to be as good as skarova's/kodiaks

Sins of a Solar Empire  ....$39.95.
Entrenchment Expansion.....$9.95.
Ranting Eastern European Gamer with a head injury.....Priceless!

Seriously though, Carriers are pretty tough now...you can choose not to build them, but you CAN'T ignore them.  They build fighters and bombers for free.  The reason flak eventually loses is because no matter how many strikecraft they shoot down, those carriers will make more if nothing kills the carriers. 

If carriers are put on the defensive where they don't have time to rebuild their squadrons and are hunted down, they are not that powerful...If, however, you have a nice balanced fleet where the carriers can send out wave after wave of strikecraft with impunity...well, carriers become deadly.

Well you just have to look at today's strike forces on the sea ever since the Royal Navy's attack on Toranto harbour against the Italian navy in WW2 with outdated sorwdfish biplans the aircraft carrier has been at the top end of naval warfare for major countries. Pearl Harbour for the Japanease navy, and most major battles in the pacific for the American navy afterwards.

So it wouldn't bother me to have carriers with a bit more firepower, because they are today. Also they are protected by a horde of destroyers (cruisers and even battleships during WW2) so its nice to see that they are finally seeing their place in the game

While using the word logic, it would be nice to use some.

An all carrier army is a corpse.  Fighters will kill your bombers, period.  There isn't any way to prevent this against an equal.  The more fighters you have to kill the enemy fighters, the fewer bombers there are to take them on.  Your fighters are fucked afterward.  Fighters don't do shit to flak.  Fighters are however excellent lrm killers.  Perhaps if your opponent were spamming lrm frigates, which oddly enough is what everyone was complaining about before, an all carrier army would work.  One spam can counter another, the world is coming to an end because of the imbalance!

Strike craft are aptly named.  They make one strike.  After that one strike, they've obliterated each other's bombers.

It's definitely made the game more challenging.  You have to balance out having the necessary amount of strikecraft with having enough light frigates, LRMs, and HCs to take down other vessels.  I'm not sure if I like it or not but I'm reworking my strategies now.

Falk needs a buff. Its not effective enough as it is

I agree with the OP and I dont care about his english skills. He is right because right now carriers are the pinnacle of any fleet. If you dont have it and your opponent does then you are at a serious disadvantage. Is it supposed to be like this?

Anybody remember online 1.5 and previous?  No one ever built carriers in 1.5 - it was a race to LRMs and mebbe one type of support craft or heavy cruisers.  You never built light frigates, you never built flak (except to counter lrm, mebbe) and you ignored 3/5 of the cap ships. 

Now in 1.1 I see games where people have fleets of all different ships, no one fleet looks like the next, and all will incorporate carriers because they are versatile on offense and defense.  That isn't a bad thing. 

You only need 5 or ten carriers to play defensively...spec them all fighters and then build the ships you like, if you hate them so much.  Personally I play Vasari and like my big heavy bombers and fighters just fine....

After playing the .09 beta I thought the same thing which is why I started working on this mod below Emphasize capital carrier/fighter roles,

Mainly to eliminate support carriers and make capital ship carriers actually worth it. You don't see present day navies having little micro aircraft carriers running all over the place.

Now I agree you should be a good player and be prepared to balance your fleet, but the problem is, with these numbers of fighters it generates a rock paper scissors combat problem.

If you have someone that has a huge fleet of ships and tons of flack frigates and only a few support carriers with fighters, and they go up against a fleet thats all carriers with bombers, its highly likely the mixed fleet will still get destroyed.

Sure you can answer this with more carriers, but you start seeing the only answer to carriers with bombers is, well...carriers.

Problem with a huge carrier fighter fleet against  huge bomber fleet is, the bombers can kill the carriers before they get destroyed by fighters, so if the fleet with bombers can destroy a few carriers of the fighter fleet, then you start seeing a tip in the bombers favor because then the bomber carriers can rebuild their squadron and slowly take out the rest of the fighter carriers. Even if the bombers are completly annilated when rebuit, if they still get one shot off, over time the bomber carriers will win.

This depends on fleet size though. 4 carriers vs 4 carriers, you won't see that much of a change. But if you are talking 20 30 carriers where bombers can destroy a carrier or  3 in one pass, the bombers will eventually win. It still takes a pass or two for the fighters to kill all the bombers. Even then the fighter fleet is now down 3 to 6 carriers and the bomber carriers are building more bombers.

Anyways this is just my two sense maybe I am wrong on a few things, but thats my experience so far.

I built carriers a fair bit in 1.05!!!

Really - I find that the bombers get shredded long before they do much significant damage to my fleet!!!!

myeh maybe I am wrong, It probably depends which fleets are versus which, I was playing advent vs a freinds vasari fighter fleet just to see what happened.

I won, but it I think I might have been in my culture so my carriers were able to recharge their antimatter which helps too.

And even though vasari are more powerful they can only shoot at one thing per a pass and have fewer fighters per squadron, and if you add the fact that advent get that extra is 5 or 7 fighter squadron on top of that, maybe that really made the difference for me too.

Oh well, I don't play enough multiplayer to experiment too often, the AI you can't because it just rolls over in the face of a mass fleet of bombers, then runs, and loses the rest of its ships when trying to jump out. (This is Hard AI too)

Maybe we will have to play one of these days hack78, so you can show me the shame of my ways..lol.

Nope - antimatter is the TEC bonus. Vassari get a damage output bonus.

I'm online as Hack. On Australian evenings and weekends (unless fiancé decides otherwise!!!!).

I won't be on as much after 11th as I am moving and need to get new internet connection setup etc... AND going away for Xmas....

I was glad to see Carriers/SC in 1.9 and now in 1.1, like stated above, there where non-existant in 1.5.  But in 1.1, I tried making flak to counter SC, and it just was not working.  I play on small medium maps, so I make like 20-25 flak and the SC still swarm me.  So I keep wondering, if they just made flak a tiny bit more effective vs Fighters, would'nt that even things out?

I mean, then you'd build fighters to take out bombers, and flak to take out fighters (and a bit to stop bombers).  Otherwise, you really need to just spam more carriers/fighters to fight fighter spam, right?  And if you made Flak do more damage to bombers, then who needs fighters?

Some of you game-math nerds please show me if this would figure out?  Cause right now, I end up making about the same huge percentage of carriers in my fleets as I use to make LRMs.

As for the English in the OP's post:  Yes Lucy, I "thin" the carriers might be a bit too strong; now back to the cabana club for me. . .

I think they weakened flak in the hopes of making carriers and strikecraft more effective.

you people are too layzy to build light firgates :/

I think I can translate his OP! here goes.

                      Do you guys think that carriers are too strong now?

When carriers attack, my ships die like flies! Even the defense ships don't help! Come on, the Advent's all over me!

_

is that easier to read now?

Fear the Unity!

I don't know about this whole "Advent Owns All" narrative.  Sure, when you get Siddy's battleball up you are close to unstoppable, but before that? 

Let's strip out micro, tech, and abilities and look at basics for a moment.  No micro on ten Vasari Carriers vs. ten Advent Carriers, all fighters, half and half, and all bombers.  Who wins?

The Advent carriers each have 3 strikecraft and the Vasari carriers have two, so it's a 3-v2 ratio.  The Advent fighters would knock out the Vasari bombers and fighters and remain to work on the carriers.

But the advent carriers cost more, so the vassari should be fielding more of them....

His posts are too funny to take seriously at all.

This is the sort of thing that powers my roflcopter

edit on my previous post >.> 

i did some more games with carriers,   my enemy had a full RA fleet whilst i had around 75 (aslo as vasari) carriers,  guess what,   i won,    i didnt lose alot either,  just 10 carriers (with them running away ofcouse,   my massed bombers and fighter 2/3 fighter 1/3 bomber....     thats still 100 fighter squads and 50 bomber squads..     

Advent carriers apear to be even more powerfull then i previously thought...   since they house 3 squadrons and each squadron has a very high (8 im in not mistaken)  fighter count    so again Advent have the advantage,    and this time,  they have the "most imbalanced" carrier of the game,  over the fact that other race's carriers are also imbalanced...  thats some seriously imbalanced carrier - .-

it might cost a little more,  but when u add the numbers, they pay x1.5 the price,  for 3 instead o 2 extra squadrons, so that is fair   the problem starts with advent having a high number of crafts per squadron ...  4 extra doesnt mean alot in a single squad   but in 100 squads thats 800 fighter's  over vasari's 400 and alot fo games end up with who has the most carriers, wins the game

shouldnt something be fixed about this as soon as possible :/?

Light frigates should probably be faster and NOT stop before firing so that range is lost and they have to start pursuing again (I could be wrong, but that's what it feels like).

The Light and Flak frigates could both be faster without too much IMBA. The Flak definitely needs to deal more dmg vs SC. I think if Carriers could be chased down and killed easier and Flaks were more effective, there may be some good balance.

A major problem is that this game is tough to balance. When you consider all the elements, there is so much shit you have to go through to figure out who would win a fight on paper. Some simplification would help make balancing a whole lot easier, as you could predict the full implications of all the changes. The second Flak are too strong, a few flak make carriers pointless- but how do you really work that out? IDK- I would be get into modding this game and looking into balance myself, but it seems like too much of a PIA to figure out what the variable changes would actually effect.

Either way- Flak don't kill SC fast enough, and Lights don't shoot consistently while pursuing.

Iv been playing this game since its early days, and with the release of 1.1 i feel that it has become a pointless race to carriers against opponents who are ALL advent. Advent was already the most played faction prior to 1.1, and now it seems all the other factions SUCK. Thats right, SUCK. Vasari RA is pointless, since it costs money, is slow, and cant face off advent carrier rush. Vasari carriers are much worse than advent carriers due to the amount of strikecraft.

    >>> Vasari is out of the game

TEC carriers arent doing well either - and now that balanced fleets DIE within minutes against an all carrier fleet - makes TEC pointless as well.

   >>> TEC is out of the game

RESULT: Everyone plays ADVENT, everyone SPAMS carriers. So, technically, if u had a bad start (i.e. bad starting position), then you and your advent carriers will die, cuz your advent neighbour made 3 more carriers than you. Cool.

Oh and stop comparing sins to either ground or naval strategy - the amounts of argumentative points are limitless. Take the game as it is right now, which is: UNBALANCED, ADVENT-FILLED, and solely centered around CARRIER production.

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