Entrenchment Balance Thread. (2nd updated 12/17, now with general balance suggestions.)

Now with some general balance suggestions and added expansion suggestions, some are tweaked.

from Sins Forums

 

We have enough of bug thread. Let's talk about balance thread. Here's some lists I want to pointed out.

 

First of all, general balance suggestion. What's so good with new units if we can't use old units properly? I don't want a new half-baked cake. I want old fully-baked cake! So my stomach does not suffer!

 

1. About carrier too good and light Frigates too weak issues: https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/331461/page/3/#1979766

Change flak frigate's attack type to light (get rid of that silly very light anyway)

Buff light type attack against very light: 100% to 150%.

Slightly increase HP and shields of light frigates (or cost reduction)

 

2. About illums overpowered.

First I thought "just nerf illums more." But I think buff other LRMs are better idea (if we implement the suggestions above)

There are research for LRMs and As for more damages with AOE. Make them available in three military lab, make them a lot cheaper (About 600 credit) and shorter the research time. No one currently uses this research, no one has seen this a lot (even many experienced people have no clue about the visual effects of these ability, since they had no chance to see them. Vasari one is like green beams if you want to know) I tested myself, and I think it is great, making LRMs and As about similar level to illums.

Or maybe further illum nerf is not that bad idea XD.

 

 

Now Expansion suggestions.

 

1. Mines : Mines are broken; with enough time, you can virtually mine the whole planet and there's really nothing you can do about it quickly. And they are powerful enough to wipe out a bunch of frigates with ease. The scouts are almost useless ; they die too fast to concentrated fire from other frigates and fighters and revealing area is ridiculously small. Also it is not possible to command attack command to mines since it reveals flickingly. Here are my suggestion.

 

-Greatly increase senser range of scout frigates (like 7000) so they can be effective.

-Give capital ships ability to spot mines as well. Maybe shorter range than scout frigates. The thing is scouts die fast to concentrate fire, thus this gives less microing requirement.

-Stop this flicking mess! I can't attack order mines and it is tiresome already!

Heard that mines will use tactical slots. Good to hear.

 

 

2. Starbases. They are immobile, relatively short range, and not so useful other than sitting there. See related discussion : https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/333087

My own thread for Starbases: https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/333308

-ALL factions' must be movable, while Vasari one being able to do phase jump. If Vasari one uses more than 4 upgrade slots, the phase jump ability should be disable to prevent imbalance.

-VERY slightly increase the range of Starbase, to.... ah, little bit less than TEC LRM's range. MORE of that will cause imbalances in certain situation (guardians, nuff said)

-The cost of upgrades of starbases should be incremental. The cost is too high to be good in early to mid, and dirt cheap in late game. Start from cheapy 500 credit, 50 metal/crystal for any first upgrade, then increase the cost of ANY second upgrade (so users can't spam cheapy upgrade cost for various abilities) The final upgrade cost should be like 5000 credit with good amount of resources. (see discussion below)

-They need to be built a bit slower (see discussion below)

-What the hell Advent one having planet bombing thingy, get rid of it and put different weapon!

 

3. Anti- structure cruisers: can you give them some wimpy guns like siege ones have? They act funny due to lack of normal attack weapons. (see discussion via link)

3,147 views 16 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

If the starbases could phase jump, they'd turn into gigantic assault platfroms of doom. Yes, I think there is a problem with the bases not applying weapon upgrades, but I think the Vasari one should be weaker, because it can move around. That, and I think the weapon ranges on the bases are a little weak as of now, but it's not that big of a problem.

And yes, yes, yes to those suggested mine changes.

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

Perhaps give the ability to detect mines to capital ships or support cruisers as a researched upgrade?   Makes scouts useful for mid to late game but still gives you a chance against mines later on.

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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

I agree with making mines visible longer, but not permanantly. 

I also agree with making starbase weapon range much larger.

I agree with Gylukios that the Vasari base shouldn't be able to Phase Jump, that would just make it insane. You could build it up to max upgrades then unleash it via phase gates; it'd be crazy.

I agree with having the sight for scouts be larger.

I'm not sure about having Cap ships be able to spot mines. Maybe flak frigates?

 

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

Also the fighter bay on the starbase costs... ya a little on the expensive side... hell the price of the normal hanger bay is like half... so we need to find a nice lower price or a good medium.

Also increase range of starbase's weapons.

Scouts and Flak frigates can have better sensors for finding mines.

Increase sensor range for scouts too.

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

This maybe off topic but this applies to sins and the coming expansions. Exploring asteriod planets should be 1 not 2 upgrades since they are way smaller than planets.

Also defence upgrade for rate of fire for weapons platforms isnt it like 3 upgrades make it 2 but still increases rate of fire to 15% at the last upgrade.

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Hawawaa, reply 4
Also the fighter bay on the starbase costs... ya a little on the expensive side... hell the price of the normal hanger bay is like half... so we need to find a nice lower price or a good medium.

Also increase range of starbase's weapons.

Scouts and Flak frigates can have better sensors for finding mines.

Increase sensor range for scouts too.
End of Hawawaa's quote

yeah, I thought that too. 1800 plus resources for just 2 squads is a bit much, you can almost get more squads of lcs or hangards for that price and they are mobile. to keep with the current cost scheme, make the upgrade give at least 3, better 4 fighters. or alternatively give it some flaks also, but I think the flaks, at least a little bit, should be standard issue.

as to the other suggestions: haven't played around with mines yet, but it sounds about right.

larger mine detection radius for scouts.

longer, if not permanent reveal once scouted.

maybe limited reveal for caps, best via upgrade (something like mine countermeasures or minefield detection)

and a definite no-no to phase jump capability of starbases. they should be somewhat fixed and a glorified cap is just not what they are or should be.

a significant range increase should be done though. it's a bit hard to do it with circular ranges in a circular movement area, but if I place it in medium orbit around a normal planet on one side, nothing should get past it without taking several hits. it need not cover the entire grav well, but with clever placing it should reach a fair bit at least.

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

imo only scout frigates should have the spot mines ability, this way we'll finaly see more scout frigates in army,s  even as a priority target,  instead of going back to the usual flak spam  tough i hate to say it,  vasari wil now have imba mining detection,  since their scout frigates can be equiped with phase cloaking,  very nasty if u try to kil all scouts and they just keep cloaking emself,

but then again... vasari are an offensive race.. not defensive

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

Phase clocking is very late tech, and mines available relatively very early.

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

I agree, all starbases should move or have increased weapon range. The Vas should not be able to phase jump, but maybe pack up back into a migrator and unpack at its destination. That way the defenders have a chance of stopping it. This would also make up for Vas's lack of an anti-building ship since the Disintegrator Rays are "strong againts buildings".

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

Mines should remain 'spotted' forever. That way you could map out a systems defenses with scout ships and plot ways around the mines for your main fleet.

Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

They should add 1-2 really long range upgrades to starbases, and allow more strikecraft.  A basic starbase should have 2, and a maxed one should be like a carrier.  This will give a starbase a good long range punch (Enough to keep harrassment fleets away from the planet). 

As for mines, what about a bomber(Or fighter) upgrade that allows them to spot and destroy them?  I'd make it a toggle button where (After research) bombers can see mines at Scout ranges, and prioritize killing them.  Since bombers can be killed pretty easily with fighters, and all caps eventually get strikecraft, it would give caps a way to clear mines, and it would keep bombers busy, away from the enemy fleet.  A more drastic measure would be to add a third type of strike craft that was specifically antimine.

The only problem I see with this is noncap-carriers are already pretty good and spammed.  A fix for this would be to only allow capship strikecraft the toggle button.  It could also be limited to only support caps, especially the weaker ones.

Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top

Mines anyone?

 


Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top

Lol, nice pic...

Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top

Starbases should not move.Their to cheap, built to fast.

Much longer range.

Elite fighter/bomber's (starbases only) (new ships) would cover grav well starbases can't get to.

Upgrade my Starbase to a trade port? boooring. Enough support they need balls.

Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top

Simple updated.... comments on mine and added a link to my own thread for starbases.

Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Mokinokaro, reply 2
Perhaps give the ability to detect mines to capital ships or support cruisers as a researched upgrade?   Makes scouts useful for mid to late game but still gives you a chance against mines later on.
End of Mokinokaro's quote

 

How about a dedicated minesweeper? Sure, it's an additional ship, but that would be useful! It could even be added to some of the lighter ships that get ditched late game.