(1st updated)Reasons for why starbases need to be mobile (and Vasari needs to be able to phase jump)

My thoughts:

(Very?) Slow starbase movement would be good. Vasari one being the only one with anywhere near decent speed though.

Somewhat increase range. Still easy to bypass.

Some kind of inhibitor that's not as good as the pji might work. (Last I heard, pji doesn't stack, either. Haven't tried multiple since 1.05, though.)

Phase jumping starbase: Bad. If you disable jumping after a certain number of upgrades, it can still jump and then immediately upgrade.

If you can't jump to one that already has a starbase, there will be complaints when a needed base is stuck on the other side of one that has the wrong upgrades. And you can just send them in one at a time 'til the enemy is ground down.

It's too much like "Super Capital Ship".

I really do not think Starbases are super capital ship.

First of all, in current state they are just way more expansive than capital ships (the cost of colony frigate, initial cost for base, upgrade costs for weapons and one hull/shield/armour upgrade outweights the capital ship with a supply upgrade)

And you say there will be compliants with starbases no being able to move freely..... well that's my intention. Starbase should not have same mobility as normal ships.

Or We can limit the number of upgrade slots tied to a planet. So with one planet your starbase can have 8 upgrade slots. So you will either have 1 fully upgraded starbases or 8 unupgraded starbases. I think this can balance things out.

For increasing range i totaly agree because i to can see the insane combo with the gardian.

If you take my idea on who the base shoudl prevent phase jumping you will not have that problem. You will be free to retreat to your or your allies planet or to a neutral or not yet colonised planet.

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/333231   Reply 13 is were i taccle and descrive the solution.

Which means that the jump inhibitors will keep their current role wich si to keep the enemy from retreating. Usign them defensively was meaning less since the enemy would kill them before goign further. How ever if you are losing the battle your are not able to kill them very easily thus they were always a toll to prevent the enemy from escaping and not from proceding further.

Wich leads to mobilaty wich should remains as is. Bses (Tec Advent shouldnt move) My idea negates the need for them to move wich make it easier to build defenses arounf it. And the Vasari Base shouldn't be able to phase jump sicne your could possible endup with multiple startbases in one place. Or keep sending a builtup base into combat when ever one is destroyed. It's a HUGE can of worms to open and will ultimately become and I win button and thus have to be nerfed. For keeping the base alive while it is beign built means that you fleet will need to be present to defende it and have sufficiant support power to keep the base alive till construction finishes. Or simply use the base as a diversion to spare your ships while your wipe his fleet. But jumping a built base in is overpowered.

If we aren't going to increase the range lets increase the number allowed in a gravewell...They are to expensive and easy to bypass. Or you could go a step further and allow a small amount of other defensive structures to be built around the starbase. I almost cried when a fleet of enemy advent jumped to an occupied colony just outside the range of the base...after all those credits...i mean the novolith cannon is less expensive and can take out enemy colonies from the cozyness of your capital planet. Nonetheless it was not what i was expecting, a station of that physical magnitude should be something amazing...or you could always greatly increase power (range, damage, structure etc) at a higher price and have it build much slower...basically i did not enjoy the cost vs usability of the  new starbases, hopefully something is done. I personally would love for at least fifty percent of the gravewell to be covered.

I like teh phase jump disabled after certain amount of upgrades but think if your trying to make a starbase then send it off you would have to allow it to be able to jump into a system that already has a strbase. Odds are where you want it to go is past your front line which has its own starbase already probably. Also if your planet you are trying to build starbases from has its own starbase then you would be able to have 2 that way or be forced not to be able to make a starbase at a planet that has one which kinda sucks. 

So not allowing them to jump to a planet that already has one has some flaws but if you take it way then your left with 20 all moving around on your frontline which the other races would not be able to counter when they all jump to attack together as they can only make 1 themselves, even if they dont get upgraded very much they can still take a huge advantage if ther are enouf of them.

Its a good idea and I think the vassari should be able to move their starbases. My own possibly sudgestion would be for a tow cruiser built from the cap ship factory due to its massive size an a limit on them. They could tow starbases around but when a starbase is moving it is very limited shooting, canot use shields, canot repair itslef over time, armor is lowered and it canot use abilitys. This could solve the problem of mulitiple starbases in a system by not allowing the mover ship to let go of the starbase while it is in a gravwel that already contains a friendly starbase. I canot think of anything to let players build starbases for transport from a grvwel that already has one. Only thing I can think of is only letting the mover ship or ships (if wel allow more than 1) make starbases in gravwels containing starbases. Constructed ones would be in transport mode when they are built.

Also the advents starbase has an anit planet attack. Maybee there mean to move an not the vasari lol?

My point is, EadTaes, we already have a unit with decent textures and render that can do same/similar job.

Why starbases need to have that ability that another defense unit has? It only makes unnecessary role overlap and pretty much make the phase inhibitor unbuilt and unused. We already have TOO MANY units not being used, and you guys saying you want more units being not useful?

And again EadTaes, starbase is not that powerful enough to be overpowered, and multiple underupgraded starbases are plain weaker than a low-level battle cap.

Keep sending a builtup base means that I have enough money to spend so much resources, even more than enemies can afford, then should I win the game?

By the way, I said that phase jump should be disabled after 4 upgrades, this prevent people from sending a fully upgraded starbases for attack and force them to upgrade further after reaching the enemy territory.

Since people keep saying that starbases needs to be built slower, I don't think it would be ever possible to build a starbase in middle of battle. Hey! in current state captial ships with 8000hp included shields goesdown in 20 sec by concentrated fire, let alone a built unit which has mere less than 1000hp in first few seconds.

Oh snap, Advent starbase with bombing planet? . I have not noticed that (since I rarely play Advent) That's absurd as hell and should be replaced by other weapons then.

Oh Wandomvandom, then we just can hardcap the number of starbases in same planet as two, and limit the total upgrade slots in the same planet as 8. SO this will prevent people from exploiting and building fully-upgraded starbases in same system, while allowing starbases to advance forward.

Ya if I remem its tehir metior one. I tried made one beside a planet in hopes of using it but in the time it took to make an upgrade my friend took the planet. So I tried it on his planet lol. It made the sounds an such but didnt do any damage

The jump prevention if you read is there onyl to prevent the enemy from going any further into your territory not to prevent him from retreating. This is dictated by teh owenership of the gravwell he wants to jump to.

Also as pointed out phase stabilisers were useless at preventing and advancing enemy from advancing further sicne their could easily be destroyed. Sicne enemy has a fleet and you probably don't so it already wast good for defending.

What phase disruptors are good at are delaying the enemy when he tried to run away. Because in that senario you have the advantage over him and for him destroyign the disruptor is not likely to happen. It's a tool to punish teh enemy that trie dto attake you and failed. At leats that is how i have always used them. Were as the base will not dot hat it will fill the role of defending your back worlds and have no effect on and enemy fleet that is running away. And in case you didnt read my post in my tread I'll put it here. It's prety easy to understand.

Also I'll post my idea for making starbases block enemies.

Me the way to fix going around starbases is to make it so that hostile forces are not able to jump towards Friendly planets if you have a starbase present. But that they can jump to any uncontroled or that they or they allies ownd.

Blue is 100% free to move int he direction the arrows points. If their sin<t and arrow he cannot go there without killignt he base first.

So Blue owner of planet E can jump to A.

He can retreat back to E if he wants.

But he can no go from A to B and C.

HE can jump to D and then to B.

From be he can also jump back to A, but cannot jump back to B after.

So in the end C is the only planet that Blue cannot jump to without killing reds Starbase at A

Now if the game codding will allow this i do not know. But it would be the best way to do it.

Oh and scouts with jump interference immune research should ignore this and be able to jump everywere anytime.

If I remember correctly, in original beta of Sins that's what phase inhibitor did: preventing enemy from going deep into the your worlds.

So it would be definitely possible.

So you want like this.....

Starbases : Stop advancing toward.

Phase inhibitor : Slow retreating.

Right?

lol frogot about is that it only takes 4 upgrades for a starbase to become pwerful. 2 to health an 2 to wepons an 2 of em will be much stronger def to 1 starbase with full upgrades. Also they cover 2x the range. Ull have to rethink 8 slots is too many and also if u want one to move past ur frontline that is an 8 upgrade already then you wont be able to unless it has no upgrdaes.

That's correct. Then the phase jump should be disabled if he applies any health upgrade. Sounds better?

I think the benefits of 1 starbases outweights 2 starbases other than pure DPS and health. I am talking about a fully upgraded starbases with....

2 Weapons.

3 Healths.

2 Hangers.

1 special ability.

I believe it is more dynamic and response to more varied threats than two bases with 2 weapons and healths.

I disagree with strabases with a phase inhibitor, even if it might be "cool" (ie starbases around gas giant/roid/ect, where you cant build a phase inhibitor). It would make the game turtlled as ever and it would take years to finish a game, wich IS NOT what we want (go play Gal Civ II then )

I only tried Vasari yet, i tought all races's starbases could move like vasari's one. So what I could suggest is adding a 2/2 sloted capacity: "Tactical Engines" first rank would grant the starbase to move very slowly and second upgrade move as fast as a vasari base, keeping it free for vasari, since they are the phase masters.

Having static starbases is imo pretty useless, like turrets were in 1.xx vanilla game. They are too costly, better build a fleet or add another cap to a defensive fleet if ever.

Starbases arent that powerful, if they remain static, long range frigs and bombers will tear them down while they wont give a single shot. Vasari bases are much more a threat (for a small fleet) since they'll move toward the enemy. So that's why i suggest to add an engine upgrade to tec and advent bases.

And btw i think upgrades on starbases shouldnt all cost the same price. Some are more valuable than other, some can only build once. I could suggest to make the cost of same multiple upgrade like planetary improvement: cheapest at start, getting more and more expensive as soon as you add modules.

A phase jumping starbase would NOT break the game.  Make the upgrade 0-1 in that only 1 vasari Starbase can have that ability at anytime.

  As for making the starbases block phase lanes i will not agree to that.  The starbases are to defend vital areas and to force players to allocate a large amount of force to bring those places down.

  Right now as Advent or TEC their Starbases can be bypassed while i am assaulting the planet they are supposed to defend.   This is where the Vasari starbase does fullfill its duty as you HAVE to engage it if you want to take that planet.

  What starbases need is the following.

  Flak!  As currently the best way to face down all three starbases is to hit it with a carrier force if you want it to die.

  Damage boost.  The damage of the starbase is either bugged or it needs a severe boost because even at a full damage upgrade they can barely do the damage of 10 squads Vasari Bombers.  Also the Phase missles for the Vasari base doesn't seem to bypass shields like the normal phase missles.

 Finally the ability to target multiple ships.  The Starbases are money sinks and with the amount invested in making them as powerful as possible they need to give a solid return.

on the Vasari movement thing, I think theirs should be able to move, as pointed out above, only their starbase is anti-starbase.  its called balance.  it can be done with diferent items balancing each other out.  just make it so that the Vasari starbase has a passive ability that doesn't allow other starbases to jump into the well it's in (maybe explain it away as a mass thing, or that starbases have a different kind of phase drive).  as the others can't move, it would only affect the Vasari starbases.  If this ability were like Lingering Presence (the nullifier remains intact for a while after the base is destroyed), then there wouldn't be starbase punding.  this would make it fairly even, as the other factions' heavy construction ships would still be able to move into the well, but not starbases.

Yup in simple terms. It does imply that makign phase inhibitor shoudl be avaiulable sooner and also be cheaper.

i havne't tried it ingame myself, but it looks like its supposed to work like this

3 strikes (level 1) / 6 strikes (level 2) that do 300 health and 40 population damage each, or 900/120 1800/240 damage. That's a pretty hard hit, but it can probably be regenerated before the starbase fires again if the planet isn't bombarded in the meantime.

I see, such solution works, but there are still some points left.

But this really does not cover the fact that without massive range increase, Starbases cannot cover enough size of the grev well. A wise player will pick the fight outside the range of the starbase to reduce exposure. Of course planets will be still vulnerable to bombadment and structures outside of the range will be still destroyed.

I agree something needs tobe done with phase inhibitor.

Also if they get the abilaty that is suposed to protect your planet to work the enemy will ahve no choise but to kill the base before he can take over your world. Thus you can build everything you need in a small area. The enemi is forced to come to you. The vasari on teh otehr hand would be able to go to the enemi in case they are waiting for more back up. So that would be a vasari advantage.

As for more range they could maybe get a bit more. But i would want to see the bases fully functioning properly before doing that. But they definately need higer DPS and a higher regenrate.

I was just thinking how easy it was for those stupid miners to run around a starbase and destroy it while taking very little damage themselves when I thought "why dont starbases act as scout ships and make mines shootable within a certain range of them.  I then realized that you would be blowing up mines that are beside you but what good came out of it thou was that if all the starbases could move then why not give them the anti mine capabilitys. People complain so much about mine fields and how it takes forever to clear one once you take a well. Starbases firepower and range (be it pathetic as they are) could carve right throu them nicely. Just another good reason why all ships should move. Still not convinced over the phase jumping vasari ships.

Considering the range/not moving thing , maybe there could be a starbase ability that makes the whole gravity well essentially force attack it permanently, like a 24/7 animosity!

that doesn't really seem feasible.

btw, as I heard it, the phase jump inhibs aren't supposed to be stackable.

still think that Vasari's should be able to jump, and the others should be able to move around the well.

Slow starbase movement is useless and doesn't make up for the pathetic range. Try the Vasari one out if you like. It gets about 3 shots in, then the ships sail by and are out the gravity well before it's halfway across.

They need more range. If we need to nerf Drone Hosts, I'm fine with that. Repulsion is a giant pain in the ass and very difficult to deal with right now anyway, and Advent carrier spam can destroy a much larger fleet that is not absolutely tailor-made to taking out the carriers.

We really don't need moving Starbases. There simply is no need for such.

If you need something that moves, build ships - they are already available.

But! Starbases do need abilities that force the enemy to get in range and deal with them. Planet shielding, Phase Jump Inhibition, Tractor Beams, Super Animosity, Mass Reverie, Repair Bays, Shield Projection, etc etc.