DRM problem with used copy » Forum Post by epiclulz

This Forum Fails had to completely rewrite my post cause it didnt show the post first time. Seems it did go through

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I LOLed at the EA has more installs part

Right No PC Games let's look at my rack at my feet here and open up my Games (yes all my PC Games are logged into Steam. I prefer it to Impulse Shoot me)

AH Sins of a Solar Empire, the entire Half Life Series, CS:S tons of Mods, the whole COmmand and Conquer Series since RA1, Both Stalkers, Mass Effect, Oblivion and Morrowind, Full GTA Series, All the Max Paynes, Halo (Custom Edition), I also have xbox 360 and PS3 and a selection for each, AudioSurf, Peggle Extreme... Shall I go on?

Yeah not many games.

Anyway Sins DRM is very unique I agree. Their one of the few that if you don't get a correct code it won't lock the entire game just half the updates and multiplayer which are both explainable.

- Update - They have to pay for bandwidth your using to download updates so they expect you to help pay

- Multiplayer - Same as Update but also makes it work more efficiently with the Community systems

As for the Store Owners being Douchebags.

Heres the steps to explain why not even a regional chain would consider 2nd hand and most independents don't:

1. Buy Game

2. Download no CD Crack (Skip if game is online or works with DRM and doesn't require CD)

3. Return Game (with now useless DRM code)

4. Profit!

Honestly I would love to email this store and tell them to update their buisness practices can you give me their email address? I'm sure it wouldn't take long

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False. You can install SoaSE on all the computers in the world using the same disc. And every single one of them would be playable at the very same time.

Once you register the game the resale value is gone, so there's only one install.

We are not limiting your ability to use your purchased game. We are simply not providing you support or any post-release content.

How clever, you redefine "use" to exclude patching, upgrading and multiplayer. That way you can pretend you're not lying.

Right No PC Games

The majority of games on Steam are available as retail versions.

- Update - They have to pay for bandwidth your using to download updates so they expect you to help pay

They don't have to pay for bandwidth if they let sites like Fileplanet and Gamershell host the patches. This has nothing to do with bandwidth costs, they're just trying to block second hand sales because they're greedy.

As for the Store Owners being Douchebags.

Heres the steps to explain why not even a regional chain would consider 2nd hand and most independents don't:

1. Buy Game

2. Download no CD Crack (Skip if game is online or works with DRM and doesn't require CD)

3. Return Game (with now useless DRM code)

4. Profit!

Ok, and how does that make the store owner a douchebag?

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Quoting epiclulz,

reply 3

Once you register the game the resale value is gone, so there's only one install.

False again. Once you register the game you can continue installing over and over again on one computer or all the computers in the world. And then you can go sell the game to somebody and then they can install over and over again on one computer or all the computers in the world. And then they can sell the game to somebody....and so on and so on...

Resale value stays alive and there are an infinite number of installs.

Naturally the registration of the game remains in the original owner's name but that doesn't stop him/her from installing a gazillion times over and it doesn't stop him/her from selling the game to someone else or some computer store; like what happened in your case.

Of course your 'resale' argument leads me closer and closer to the conclusion that you actually work for this independent computer game store.

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Quoting Zoomba,

reply 24

The DVD version of Sins of a Solar Empire has no DRM. There is no code in the game, or on the disc that limits what a user can do with it. Install it all you like. Play it all you like.

The problem you're running into is that we do not support used copies. We are not limiting your ability to use your purchased game. We are simply not providing you support or any post-release content. You get what you paid for, but nothing else.

With Sins we actually provided patches up through 1.05 for standalone download. It's only after 1.1 that we ended that. So for this game we gave the used folks a bit of a freebie.

But there is a difference between support policies and Digital Rights Management.

epiclulz...if doesn't completely answer you concerns...then nothing ever will. Remember that the reply from Zoomba is coming directly from a SD/IC person. I'm sure they are not telling you this just because they want to make it sound good.

And seeing how several others have already stated this...I would think that you would finally get it and realize that you are the one who is wrong on this subject.

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False again.

Nope. The game's resale value is gone since it can't be updated, upgraded or played online.

Of course your 'resale' argument leads me closer and closer to the conclusion that you actually work for this independent computer game store.

Well of course. The notion that I would want to be able to update, upgrade and multiplay my copy of SoaSE is obviously absurd.

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...this is interesting...

So according to you, the game's resale value is less when it can't be updated or played online...

Also, according to you, the game was a used box with 50% off...

Hmm... I don't know why, but I think there's a correlation in there somewhere.

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Quoting epiclulz,

reply 6

Nope. The game's resale value is gone since it can't be updated, upgraded or played online.

Not sure... maybe you can buy the boxed version of Entrenchment when it will be out ( but maybe 9.99$ is too much for you, you can have it cheaper from second hand )... Sure that the boxed version will have the needed upgrade for the engine and game for run the entrenchment version... so, yes, you will be able to upgrade over the 1.05... off course, in case of second end, you will not be able to upgrade over the entrenchment version or play online...

Game from Stardock are cheap... going cheaper hurt you... why not spare a few beer these next friday, it will allow you to buy a full powered version... a crysis game cost here almost 50 euro for around 50 hours gaming... until now, i have more of 600 hours of sins gaming and i am not yet tired of it... ok, i have very few hours of online gaming but it is because their server is bad... but you can use other server like me, do you know Hamachi ( or something like this )... wait, it is better, your "illegal" version will work there... So, you will be able to play online...

How in the hell is Stardock blocking second hand... you can wait for upgrade ( or download them from torrent site ), you can play online on other server... Sins have so much DRM protection that they allow you to make this...

Sorry boy... you are greedy at the extreme... so much greedy that you don't wish spend time to find yourself other solution... but have time for post a rant who is several page long...

Since impulse, i cannot load update on my Linux machine... some people are working on it for resolve the problem... i have ask Stardock if they plan a Impulse for Linux... reply was "no"... i am not unhappy since Sins is not planned to work on Linux... similar to your second hand game... it is not a Stardock problem but a problem from your second hand shop... yes, i know, you will say that the shop cannot know about the cd key... but any normal shop have a internet connection, and everybody know wikipedia... for sins, on the wikipedia, it is wrote :

Sins of a Solar Empire, like Stardock's Galactic Civilizations II before it, comes without any form of copy protection, but a product key registered to an Impulse account is required for updates and multiplayer.

You wish everything wrote on the box... great... do you wish a box big like these of a 3 meter plasma TV ? You or the shop can seek some information too... when i wish buy something, i seek info on the internet BEFORE the buy and not after...

Hope that you will reply to these post... my last post was fully ignore like these of some people... you seem to reply only to these where you can some argument ( bad one but ... ). By example, you have ignore the post of the guy who have explain how he have receive a new serial by given the number of the CD... it will have resolve all your problems... but you choose to bite, not to resolve a problem...

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So according to you, the game's resale value is less when it can't be updated or played online...

Also, according to you, the game was a used box with 50% off...

Hmm... I don't know why, but I think there's a correlation in there somewhere.

As has already been said over, over, over, over, over and over again, the kind of DRM utilized by SoaSE is still uncommon. Until very recently a used game's functionality did not diminish or disappear (MMORPGs etc. excluded). It doesn't happen to second hand goods in general.

SoaSE loses all resale value. If the game store had known about the DRM, they wouldn't have taken used copies of it. Because it's worthless as a used product.

Game from Stardock are cheap... going cheaper hurt you... why not spare a few beer these next friday, it will allow you to buy a full powered version...

I could afford to buy a new copy, but I don't want to support Stardock by giving them any money and I'm not that interested in the game anyway.

How in the hell is Stardock blocking second hand...

By rendering the game useless as a second hand product. As has been explained over, over, over, over, over and over again in this thread.

Sorry boy... you are greedy at the extreme...

I have not done anything that's greedy.

it is not a Stardock problem but a problem from your second hand shop... yes, i know, you will say that the shop cannot know about the cd key... but any normal shop have a internet connection, and everybody know wikipedia...

Everyone keeps saying the game has no DRM. On this very forum there are people claiming there's no DRM. If they had Googled the issue they would have thought that there isn't any DRM (until I installed the game, that's exactly what I thought too).

You wish everything wrote on the box... great... do you wish a box big like these of a 3 meter plasma TV ? You or the shop can seek some information too... when i wish buy something, i seek info on the internet BEFORE the buy and not after...

Too bad the net is filled with disinformation regarding the subject.

By example, you have ignore the post of the guy who have explain how he have receive a new serial by given the number of the CD... it will have resolve all your problems... but you choose to bite, not to resolve a problem...

I haven't had the game for a month or something, so there is no problem to be solved.

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Ok someone lock this thread. Epic hass proven the point and fact over and over again that we could get through a birck wall before we could get through his thick skull. I am surpised one of the stardock guys havent gotten POed yet, I know I would be. And epic as many others have said, you want to directly support the game , the devlopers of the game, and get the online and patches just go out a buy a fucking new copy. sheehs 15 pages over a firggin cheap tight wad twat......

And Epic, I love how you blantly ignore my listing of facts about EA DRM. And I also love how it onyl got the attention of one or two people. SO please goto the Spore forums, or any EA forum and compalin about intrusive, unfair, and idiotic DRM there.

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Hi everyone,

I found this on Stardock's support site:

"I want to sell my copy of X to my brother, because I don't need it anymore.

Reasonable requests can be handled through support."

So if you really wanted to sell the game, you would have to go through Stardock, not a gamestore.

And I'm not sure what everyone is trying to argue here. epiclulz is right in that you can't resell the game in a conventional sense. However, you can work around that, in that you would have to transfer your account or work with Stardock to get a new key like I've seen them mention in another post.

But not being able to readily resell my games is something I'm willing to trade for the increased convenience of using a program like Impulse or Steam. Apparently, that tradeoff is not something you are willing to make, so that just means you would have to stay away from Stardock games.

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Quoting epiclulz,

reply 9

...
I haven't had the game for a month or something, so there is no problem to be solved.

Let see your argument one by one...

It was not needed to give money to Stardock... if in place of insult/attack them, you have ask gently about it, sure that now, you will have a new CD key and can have the game fully working ( someone have explain his own experience )... That you have no interest in the game is not a Stardock problem but your problem... Hundred of review exist on the internet... a few bad, a lot good... it is maybe not your style of game but in these case, it is not very difficult to find review and have some idea before buy it...

DRM... try google and "DRM sins of solar empire"... the first 3 result speak about the "DRM"... i have made the DRM between "" because it is not a DRM in the actual definition... it is something new... it don't stop you to make copy, it don't stop you to install it on several system... it only block you to have upgrade and play online IF someone have already use the CD key... in case of second hand sale, a transfer is possible if asked...

Not really disinformation... wikipedia explain it clearly and other site too... in any case, you was always welcome here for ask... you was always able to contenct Stardock and try to find a solution together.... you know, they can be friendly when you don't insult them... Hey, they know that i use pirate upgrade since i cannot use impulse but they have never ban me or threat me... i have no credit card for buy entrenchment but they accept other alternative payment option... don't say that they are not open minded...

No problem to be solved !!! So, what is the long rant here... It is only noise... You have no problem... So all people who have try to reply you in a honest way have loose their time for nothing... Come to the forum where i am moderator and your topic will be loocked after so comment... it simply show that you are what we call a troll... I think that Stardock have not loock these threat because you are so stupid that they ( Stardock ) look like heroes

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Quoting nugzboltz,

reply 11

Hi everyone,
And I'm not sure what everyone is trying to argue here. epiclulz is right in that you can't resell the game in a conventional sense. However, you can work around that, in that you would have to transfer your account or work with Stardock to get a new key like I've seen them mention in another post.

Very simple... you post is a example of what is really interesting... You explain the possibility to transfer a key, you explain that you are unlucky with impulse... but you don't make a kilometer rant...

I have my share of complain about Stardock... In almost one year, they have resolve some of them but for some other, they have clearly say that it is not their problem... I don't rant about it since they have already make more that other business compagny will have made... they cannot please every customer too...

Your post is interesting... these from Epicluz add nothing... you give a non conventional solution, on the other side, we have only complain from a guy who don't own anymore the game, who have no problem and don't seek any solution !!!

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Quoting epiclulz,

reply 6

Nope. The game's resale value is gone since it can't be updated, upgraded or played online.

And again false. The game's original owner can update, upgrade, and play online to his heart's content. If someone buys it second-hand, they can update, upgrade, and play multiplayer over LAN all the way up to version 1.05. And of course they can continue to install and uninstall, install and uninstall on any and all computers in the world using the same disc. Thus the first owner, the second owner, the third owner, and the one thousandth owner of the game can update, upgrade, and play multiplayer over LAN all the way up to version 1.05; all by only paying Stardock once.

The people who buy the game retail however get a service whereby we can get further updates to the game and can play online over the Internet with other like-minded players.

Of course resale value has absolutely nothing to do with how many times you can install Stardock games compared to how many times you can install EA games on a computer, which was your original argument in Reply #344. Don't make absurd claims that you can't back up with sound reasoning.

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Quoting CarlitX,

reply 10

I am surpised one of the stardock guys havent gotten POed yet, I know I would be. And epic as many others have said, you want to directly support the game , the devlopers of the game, and get the online and patches just go out a buy a fucking new copy. sheehs 15 pages over a firggin cheap tight wad twat......

I think he did annoy them. Or did you miss page 12? Go read it, it's a riot.

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