Diplomacy

The AI doesn't play by the same rules

from Sins Forums

So I'm possibly totally missing the point here, but every game I play goes something like this:

- Playing with all enemies on Medium on a 4 player FFA map, around 20 planets.

- Within a few minutes (this is before any AI have even taken a second planet / asteroid), every single enemy opponent have peace treaties with each other. 

- Meanwhile, they are asking me to do petty tasks I am in no position to do given my fleet size at this point, like destroy 2 civilian structures. Given the only civ structures are on their home planet, and require a decent sized force to hope to tackle, I don't see how it is assumed I will do this.

- I start spreading out, and take 2-3 planets. They expand much slower. However, it is around this time they decide to all ally together. Oh goody.

- I die from 3+ capital ships turning up on planet after planet with perfect inter-team coordination, as well a considerable (for so early on) amount of cash on pirates (3000+) turning up on my door because I can't pay that sort of number to turn them off.

This is hugely frustrating; I can beat them all on Hard when teams are locked, but it just seems the whole concept of Diplomacy is completely broken when I have to do silly little tasks to even hope to get any friends while they all ally together long before I even complete one of them. Unless I'm just doing something stupid.

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2,760 views 9 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

2'nd expansion is about diplomacy.

 

until then think of it as a extra unfair setting

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

Yeah... I'm not even sure why they released the game with diplomacy in this state. The first expansion isn't even out yet, going to be a while before the second gets here.

I pretty much go locked teams anyway. What the OP describes is ludicrous.

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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

singleplayer alliance's are pretty much screwed,  i once went for 1v1 cash rush, not buying anything and making as much money as possible whilst putting AI on rushing strategy

guess what, i managed to get over 8k of credits on his head,  he managed to bring that number up to 8.5k   it's plainly impossible,  even on hard difficulty the AI is cheating

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

This is a serious question for Sins players who are more experienced than myself.

Considering that the AI apparently abuses the diplomacy system, that the "missions" system is a bit silly and unreasonable in the early game, and that it's overall a bit wonky and unsatisfying, is there ever a good reason to play single-player games with anything but locked teams?

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

This is a serious question for Sins players who are more experienced than myself.

Considering that the AI apparently abuses the diplomacy system, that the "missions" system is a bit silly and unreasonable in the early game, and that it's overall a bit wonky and unsatisfying, is there ever a good reason to play single-player games with anything but locked teams?
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Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

Considering that the AI apparently abuses the diplomacy system, that the "missions" system is a bit silly and unreasonable in the early game, and that it's overall a bit wonky and unsatisfying, is there ever a good reason to play single-player games with anything but locked teams?
End of quote

You'll have to elaborate on this one. How does it abuse the system?

The missions system could use a bit of work, but they are predictable and thus you have a measure of control. For example, you will never get an "Kill x number of this player's buildings/ships" unless that player has a colony within 2 jumps of yours. With this in mind, it's quite easy to make sure the first 2 missions are pure "give me resources", which will allow you to secure a cease fire. The AI also never breaks off treaties on the whim, unless they have no-one else to fight (all other opponents are defeated) or your happiness with it  drops below the minimum needed to sustain the treaty (like 35% for cease fire).

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

He's probably thinking of the whole late-game all-AI team player gang-bang that seems to happen very often.

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

Maybe, but that's not really abuse. I mean, isn't that what you'd do? They don't gang up because you're the only human player, they gang up because you're the strongest player and they figure "Well, crap, why are we fighting among ourselves so this guy can laugh and wipe us out one by one when we can go take him out first" :)

But of course, if you're playing an FFA, you *have* to make your own treaties, again the AI is pretty predictable. They need someone to fight. They do make treaties with themselves.  If you don't make a cease fire/alliance with one, some other will and then their possible targets narrow :P Getting even a cease fire gets more than just that one AI off your back. Not only will he not attack you, but he'll *always* need to have some other enemy to go pester.

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Annatar11, reply 6
You'll have to elaborate on this one. How does it abuse the system?
End of Annatar11's quote

Well, I'm primarily going by what was written in the OP here, as well as things other posters have said.

For example, other empires having peace treaties within the first minute of the game, while you're expected to complete nigh-impossible missions (again, we're looking at the very beginning of the game) to get on their good sides. Missions which, if you don't complete them (and you won't at first), will further harm your standing with other empires.

Essentially, the AI players don't have to do any missions for each other. They can decide to sign whatever treaties they like with each other as it suits them. That's the cheat, because the player is expected to do missions, an additional burden apparently not levied on AI players in any way.

Because of this, you may get triple AI cap ships attacking you very shortly after the beginning of the game, as well as high pirate bounties placed on your empire that are difficult to beat. Again, this all stems from the fact that AIs are not fettered by any mission system and can treaty with each other as they see fit (apparently).

And then, of course, there's end-game spam, which is actually to expected if you never bother with diplomacy and may not really be an actual "flaw".

Now for ME, it's not so much the added challenge of this phenomenon, but rather the fact that a somewhat annoying diplomacy system which favors the AI for no really good reason breaks "the fourth wall". Knowing that the system is flawed makes it sort of an eyesore in my game.

So is it ever worth bothering with diplomacy, which (people seem to agree) is a deck that's stacked against you, rather than always locking teams? Aside from added challenge because it's stacked?