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Howdidudothat
Howdidudothat
Join Date 04/2008
+34

Merge the Defense and Military Tech-Trees

December 22, 2008 3:18:06 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I like the new defense techs, but the new tree is not needed.  Let's face it, defense is the same as military.  So just put them both under the military tree and be done with it.  Besides, having 2 tech trees messes with my pavlov's dog mouse clicks.  The ONLY benefit that I see from the 2 tech trees is that your can research both military and defense at the same time, but I am willing to give that up for a more understandable tech tree.

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Howdidudothat
VRaptor117
Join Date 12/2008
+1
Reply #1 December 22, 2008 3:27:30 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting ,
quoting post
The ONLY benefit that I see from the 2 tech trees is that your can research both military and defense at the same time, but I am willing to give that up for a more understandable tech tree.

Umm, I'm not.  Separate research queues kick ass.

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Kruppe
Join Date 11/2008
+10
Reply #2 December 22, 2008 3:38:56 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Umm, I'm not. Separate research queues kick ass.

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Howdidudothat
Howdidudothat
Join Date 04/2008
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Reply #3 December 22, 2008 3:49:11 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Umm, I'm not. Separate research queues kick ass.

Why, what OTHER advantage does it have?

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Tkins
Join Date 10/2008
+12
Reply #4 December 22, 2008 3:58:18 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

It's less cluttered

it allows for more research to be added in later.

Allows three reseach abilities to be done at the same time

It helps to focus strategies so that if someone wishes to be defensive, it's easier to do that

For mod purposes it opens a few doors (very nice!)

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VRaptor117
Join Date 12/2008
+1
Reply #5 December 22, 2008 4:03:46 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Howdidudothat,
reply 3

Umm, I'm not. Separate research queues kick ass.


Why, what OTHER advantage does it have?

Clearly you don't remember the early days of Sins where, mid-way through the game, you'd have 20-30 or more techs and logistic levels queued up and have to wait forever to max out the trees.

And now you don't completely gimp your ship development if you decide to research a few defensive/ civil techs.

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Howdidudothat
Howdidudothat
Join Date 04/2008
+34
Reply #6 December 22, 2008 4:06:37 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Clearly you don't remember the early days of Sins where, mid-way through the game, you'd have 20-30 or more techs and logistic levels queued up and have to wait forever to max out the trees.

Ahh...the need for proper planning.

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Rhedd_V
Join Date 02/2008
+13
Reply #7 December 22, 2008 4:53:47 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

So we should all suffer because you- in your own words- have an intellect akin to a dog that does tricks when a bell is rung?

Yeah, thanks.

Might I submit a counter-suggestion? Learn to use the interface.

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Hound
Join Date 03/2008
+10
Reply #8 December 22, 2008 5:25:35 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I'd vote for removing Trade and Culture techs for Starbases and then merging the defense and military tech trees.

The double researches are making Starbases too expensive in multiplayer. Having to research Trade Ports and then Trade Ports for Starbases and then paying for an expensive upgrade is too much.

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Yodarkore
Join Date 07/2003
+1
Reply #9 December 22, 2008 6:33:05 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Starhound,
reply 8
The double researches are making Starbases too expensive in multiplayer. Having to research Trade Ports and then Trade Ports for Starbases and then paying for an expensive upgrade is too much.

 

Correct me if i'm wrong but you don't have to research "civic" trade to research "military" (i mean starbase trade module) trade.

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Hound
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #10 December 22, 2008 6:40:07 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Wasn't Orbital Commerce a pre-req for the Starbase Trading tech? I was playing TEC and seem to remember it was.

Anyway I'd prefer you could only research one military tech and one civilian tech at a time and the new defense techs would surely fit in the military tree.

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PeTTs0n
Join Date 11/2008
+2
Reply #11 December 22, 2008 7:13:39 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I'd actually say; more research, and it would be nice to see some exclusive options as well (ie. research option 1 and you wont be able to research option 2). I'm all for customization ^^

So I see really no negatives in another research tree

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Tessian
Join Date 02/2006
0
Reply #12 December 22, 2008 7:20:06 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Starhound,
reply 10

Anyway I'd prefer you could only research one military tech and one civilian tech at a time and the new defense techs would surely fit in the military tree.

No it would not "surely fit in the military tree".  The military tree is packed as it is, there's no room for a 4th row of defense.  I really don't see what the stink is over this, why is this so bad?  Better organization + space = Good

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Tkins
Join Date 10/2008
+12
Reply #13 December 22, 2008 7:35:25 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I wouldn't doubt if this is the biggest reason: "Besides, having 2 tech trees messes with my pavlov's dog mouse clicks"

 

 

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Josef086
Join Date 08/2008
+5
Reply #14 December 22, 2008 7:41:59 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I acutlly like having an extra tree.  It helps break things down better.  Plus, as some one said you can research more at a time. 

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Teal_Blue
Join Date 08/2008
+42
Reply #15 December 22, 2008 8:32:20 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Tkins,
reply 4
It's less cluttered

it allows for more research to be added in later.

Allows three reseach abilities to be done at the same time

It helps to focus strategies so that if someone wishes to be defensive, it's easier to do that

For mod purposes it opens a few doors (very nice!)

 

Very to the point and dead on!!  I like what Tkins says.

-Teal

 

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BaggerX
Join Date 02/2008
+4
Reply #16 December 22, 2008 11:33:27 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Tkins,
reply 4
It's less cluttered

it allows for more research to be added in later.

Allows three reseach abilities to be done at the same time

It helps to focus strategies so that if someone wishes to be defensive, it's easier to do that

For mod purposes it opens a few doors (very nice!)

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Mazuo
Join Date 07/2007
+17
Reply #17 December 23, 2008 12:02:26 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Yeah, honestly I like the Defense tree.  I'm not for adding separate tabs for the sake of adding separate tabs, but the research found in the new tree makes sense to me and looks good.

It also unclutters the rather highly populated military tree a little which is nice.

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lbgsloan
Join Date 04/2008
+10
Reply #18 December 23, 2008 10:51:49 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

My only real criticism of the new tree is that it makes civilian labs even less important that they were before.  Lets face it, with all the cool new toys you get from military who's going to go beyond trade ports in the civ tree now?

 

Other than that, being able to research more at once is good.  And really, most of the stuff in defence is specialized enough to warrent its own tree.  Most of the old techs that were moved into the new tree were never used.  By not holding up the queue for other military reasearch anymore, they might actually see some use now.

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Haree78
Join Date 02/2008
+24
Reply #19 December 23, 2008 11:12:05 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
I like the fact that I get an extra queue to use, so I can research my military stuff while researching SBs or defence upgrades but I had a few issues with the way it was done. For one thing it annoyed me that there could be prerequistes from another tree so I wasn't able to see how I would research to a particular tech without reading tooltips and switching to other tech trees to have a look. As a suggestion it would be nice to show greyed out type prerequisites before the tech so I can see what it requires from other trees but that it isn't available from this tech queue. The other thing that annoyed me was finding where stuff was now, I wanted to research repair modules so I went to the defence tech tree, obvious right...? Clearly not, seemed a bit strange to me. Perhaps there is a reason they wanted to keep the repair bays, PJIs etc in the same queue as the military techs but it still seems counter intuitive to me. Edit: Why is my paragraph formatting getting screwed when I post?
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Lore Weaver
Join Date 03/2006
0
Reply #20 December 24, 2008 8:07:56 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I'd like to see a "defense" section in both the civilian and military trees.  So they can draw in dependencies like they did before, and have the "civic" style upgrades require the non-weapons labs.

Feels odd, as Advent, researching culture generation stuff in your weapons labs...

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