[Suggestion] Making mines vulnerable, and stopping the spam.

After playing around with the beta a hell of a lot I decided that before I gave any feedback on the new features I would go through & see what I could do with my limited modding knowledge, so that I would have an informed opinion on what could be done to fix things.

My first topic is mines, now I'm really not to concerned with the damage of mines or how the different types of mines work, personally I really enjoy the variety but I know there are problems with that. I'm more concerned with fixing what is obviously broken & getting feedback from the forum community.

There are two big issues with mines at the minute, the first is that they're pretty much invincible since they keep switching between invulnerability & not, even when a scout is parked right next to them. My first thought was for scouts' auras to apply a debuff to mines stopping the use of their abilities, that way the constant invulnerability buff they apply to themselves through AbilityHideMine would be stopped & they couldn't reapply it until the scout moved, however I realised the problem with this before I even started work on it, a mine with no abilities can't asplode, so scouts would be immune to them, not exactly what a lot of people on these boards (myself included) want.

So my next thought was to make the scout aura something that didn't end when the scout moved away, but instead changing the buff...target of the mine detection so that it lasted maybe 30 seconds, after all, if you're informed of the location of a mine through the sensors of your scouting party you're not going to forget it immediately... so this kind of makes sense. Anyway, at the same time I was concerned that it was not only the lack of a duration on the scout aura, but also a problem with the mines' cloak ability too, so I changed both things at once, changing the mines' cloak from a passive to an autocast ability which also has a duration & cooldown, but will typically be on all the time unless you turned autocast off. This worked like a charm, the mines stay detected for the FULL 30 seconds, giving a fleet plenty of time to destroy them, while at the same time still doing their job of slowing fleets down. It's now possible to destroy mines, but you're going to have to manuver your scouts through all of them & have your ships more closely & carefully behind, it's easy to miss a few with the small range on scouts. The change I made to the mines' cloaking might be redundant, I'm not entirely sure since I haven't tested it without that change, but it's not a huge, game changing thing to be honest.

Okay, with that solved it's on to game breaker number 2 with mines, the SPAM! Seriously, it's a big issue when the game lags out & becomes unplayable just because there are too many mines on the map, so the obvious solution is to make there be LESS mines on the map. Now some people have suggested adding a cost to all mines, but I wanted to try something different so I messed with expiry times to make it so the mines disappeared after a while. This was easy enough with Advent & Vasari mines, they already have an expiry timer that you can change since they are just like any other spawned unit (missile battery, bombardment platform, etc), but currently they are only set to expire after TWELVE HOURS @.@ Changing this does affect the way they work, admittedly, if you give them timers of anything between 5-30 minutes you can't use them for totally fortifying areas anymore, but let me explain how it does actually work. The thing about Vasari/Advent mines is that you can make them all currently for free, & while assaulting a planet, this gives a different feel to them, making them more offensive mines & in this sense a short timer like that works, you can attack an enemy & give  them a hard time without crippling their phase lanes forever, you can block them for a little while though, or force  them into temporary choke points which is still very handy. But aren't mines mainly for defense, you ask? Well yes, & in  this case it's STILL not a  big loss. If you want to use mines for defense you'll be keeping a ruiner or an advent hanger in your grav well anyway, so when your psidar picks up enemies jumping at you, just get to work laying some mines, it only takes a hanger or two ruiners a few moments to set a nasty trap for an enemy jumping into the grav well, but it prevents you from setting a fleet destroying minefield of DOOM on your doorstep.

The TEC mines are a little more difficult to work with admittedly, & since they cost money I believe they should be given a bit longer of a fuse, maybe 30 minutes to 2 hours depending on things I will explain later, & the fact that they actually take time & resources to build. But nonetheless anyone who has seen unfair NPCs fortify asteroids with more than 500(?!) mines as TEC knows that  something still needs to be done to stop them. A tactical slot cost could work, but it limits your other defensive options, not really the aim of the game here. So costly mines on a timer isn't fair... & tactical slots isn't fair... but they still need to be limited to stop ridiculous amounts of them clogging up a grav well & lagging up larger maps. My choice was to go for the timer option, but the difficulty with that is TEC mines are structures, not spawned units, they have no expiry timer. What I did instead was to create an extra ability which served several purposes. Firstly it applied a buff to them with an OnDelay instant action of MakeDead, with the delay being pretty damn long, like I said, I think 30 minutes to 2 hours would be fair as if you're sticking defenses somewhere, if it doesn't get attacked in that space of time they're probably wasted, if it was really that important to defend the place I'm sure some Vasari player would have used Kostura ambushes to get an easy entry anyway. This pretty much fixes the problem aside from the cost, the only thing I can suggest about that is to add another delayed action, maybe something like EarnResources, so that you get back a percentage of the cost of the mines when they die.

Well that's just my 632 cents, what do you think everyone?

4,757 views 12 replies
Reply #1 Top

very nice - i like the idea of expiring mines BUT without an autopath ability for the mine layers a lot of micro is involved again :/

Reply #3 Top

Mines pretty much break the game at the moment. Though my only experience with them is how the AI uses them but the AI seems to use them quite effectively, spamming them everywhere. As a defensive weapon I can see their purpose but event the AI is using them as offensive weapons, wiping out fleets in the middle of battle by spamming mines.

If nothing else please give us the option to remove mines.

Reply #4 Top

I would like to see the one of the frigates have a minesweeper ability, relying on scout frigates to detect mine for a large fleet is somewhat vexing.

Reply #5 Top

Lol I just posted something like this but well I would suggest maybe a cap on mines per planet!?

Reply #6 Top

Quoting 3HavoC, reply 4
I would like to see the one of the frigates have a minesweeper ability, relying on scout frigates to detect mine for a large fleet is somewhat vexing.
End of 3HavoC's quote

I was thinking of modding in & testing something along the lines of allowing scout ships to be upgraded into fully fledged minesweepers actually, I'm thinking this could be done through giving them the ability to buy, for a small fee a minesweeper upgrade to scouts.

Two ways this could be done include research or an upgrade. Research is pretty simple, you buy it, your scouts get improved minesweeping abilities, like a larger detection radius, or with regards to my changes I mentioned above this could include things like a longer period of time in which the mines stay revealed after the minesweeper has detected them.

The other thought I've been having is that it could be done through an upgrade, one you could perhaps buy for individual scouts, what I like about this idea is it could be more versatile, you could throw in all kinds of different options, like upgraded scouts might have slower engines but a sturdier hull making them more survivable so they could fit in with your regular fleet, so they wouldn't be able to effectively scout planets like before, but they would make up for this through enhanced performance. Abilities like a mine clearing AoE could be added, or perhaps the option to toggle between regular scout mode &  the minesweeper mode, with different consequences. The reason why I think this would work is you'd not need a lot of micromanagement to do it, just click the upgrade button on your scouts & you're good to go, & it gives you a few more utility options than you'd get out of just research.

Of course the whole thing could be solved by adding a minesweeper ship instead, but I don't think that's quite what the developers had in mind, scouts were meant to get rid of mines, so why not give them the option to.

Reply #7 Top

i have had attacking fleets jump out so wide as to go clear around the mine feild and i am making the feild wide in the first place to make it so this can't be done and the ai fleets still jump out Way out side of the field and it covers half the grav well as is . Please fix this because what good is a mine feild if you can just jump Really wide and go around it!

Reply #8 Top

Have mines interfere with your own trade routes. If a civilian can get through a mine field, then anyone can!

Reply #9 Top

Personally, I'd like to see flack frigates be the main sweeper.  Tiny Shrapnel to counter tiny threats seems right.  Plus, as an offline player, anyway, I've NEVER had a fighter/bomber problem.  It would make the flak frigate usefull.  :grin:

Reply #10 Top

I honestly don't agree with expiring mines, unless they can automaticcally be buit in the same locations, as it requires more micromanagement by the player.  Also making the Flak Frigates shoot mines, or a new Minesweeper Frigate is needed very badly.  Putting a cap on the mines is also depended on what race your limited the cap too since, Advent has homing mines, less mines need to be used for example.

Reply #11 Top

Quoting Noa12390, reply 7
i have had attacking fleets jump out so wide as to go clear around the mine feild and i am making the feild wide in the first place to make it so this can't be done and the ai fleets still jump out Way out side of the field and it covers half the grav well as is . Please fix this because what good is a mine feild if you can just jump Really wide and go around it!
End of Noa12390's quote

 

Agree!

Reply #12 Top

A blasted mine feild is ment to Stop or at least Slow down a fleet But if they can just jump really wide and go around it is a waste of money and resources.

Hell don't get me wrong here I love the Idea of the mines BUT as is They don't work like they should hell i have had games crash do to the ai spamming the systems with them and this is in a bot bash multi player game