Love this mod. Been playing only it for months (well basically since I found it).

Had an idea. Can you have technologies that cancel out other technology paths? This would allow you to make decisions early on in research that focus you on one path or another.

For instance, a Vasari "Enslaver Pact" might increase loyalty on their own worlds, but reduce cultural effect on other worlds.

Researching this pact might cacel your ability to build propaganda centers, as nobody believes you any longer, after all you're an evil enslaving alien race

One thing that has always annoyed me about technology in Sins is that eventually.

I would also like to see multiple types of Starbases with different overall focuses. (eg defense, economic, etc).

the tech thing sounds interesting, may have to look into it

as for the multiple types of starbases, well thats why it is modular, you can build each starbase uniquely though permemantly

yeah, it's a bit of a pain in the butt, but if I'm going to do a long campaign, I accept that I'll have to demolish starbases and put in something different. Not cost effective for short games, but great down the line.

You can't make techs exclusive in Sins, but you can make it so technologies have drawbacks.  You can do things like make more armor slow down ships, better shield generators make ships more expensive, increased hull points increases build time due to increased complexity, and you could make it so certain economic techs have drawbacks, like Vasari Enslaved Labor reducing culture spread rate.  If you're going to have drawbacks though, you're going to need to have the benefits outweigh the disadvantages.

The Vasari enslave everyone on every planet they come across anyway.  They don't 'colonize' in the traditional sense.

I don't think it'd be a good idea.  The idea behind it is nice but sins doesn't really branch out far enough to make it effective.  Say you're a vasari that can't build propaganda centers, the advent next to you plops a few down right next door.  You're screwed.  You have no way to prevent the loss of your planets and they only have to sit back and watch.  That becomes a research option that no one will ever go for, meaning you've just screwed the Vasari out of an entire research branch.

I know you're looking for diversity, but technology doesn't work like that.  In human history, everytime a nation has developed a technology, the others follow quickly behind.  The steam engine...  The train...  The assembly line...  Cars...  RADAR...  Planes...  Jets...  Stealth...  Space travel...  Nuclear Power...  Every single one of these researched inventions used to be held by one country only.  In a matter of a few years, multiple nations had access to them.  Humans are very diverse in beliefs, affiliations, skills, and ethics, yet technology doesn't give a crap about any of that.

Within the game, the diversity that sets the factions apart has already happened.  It'd be different if everyone started off as a base race and their research choices turned them into TEC, Advent, or Vasari.  Then your idea would have excellent merit, but it'd already be a part of the game.  Again, good idea, however, it's not practicle.  Not unless you cut it to options like if you research economy, you're cut off from everything else.  If you research diplomacy, then you're cut off from everything else, if you research weapons, then you're cut off from everything else...  But even doing that unbalances the game because every advent would go diplomacy and take over your planets by sitting back and letting their culture do the work for them.  Every TEC would go economy and just crush you with volume of ships.  Vasari...  I don't really know what they'd do, and that's probably a bad thing because maybe no one would play vasari ever because they get hosed no matter what way they go...  =\

I think if anything like that were to be done, SpardaSon's idea would be best, giving everything a small debuff in trade for the buff. Higher maneuverability would reduce weapon accuracy, but bigger guns slow the ship down a notch. Neither debuff would be nearly strong enough to counter the other buff, BUT it would mean early-mid game would require you to decide, am I going to go for fast skirmishes or am I going to roll in with heavy staying power?

I see why Stant is opposed to the other idea. You're thinking Civ, which gives you certain access points technologically and cut-offs on cultural development. For something that large and, like the governmental development, that causal, I would say it has merits, but Civ doesn't have the fixed groups that this does. I could see someone saying, "Why not a more complex tree where multiple techs provide prereqs for higher techs, such as metallurgy and synthetic components leading to motherboard," but I don't know if the game is that flexible.

It's possible to have a research with multiple pre-reqs.  The TEC cargo capacity research requires both trade ports and refineries to be researched.

true. I was thinking a chain that would be far more complex, and I don't know if there is a limit to the number of connections or items in a research tree, but whatever. The game is rarely long enough to make it worth the trouble.

I can't think of a reason why you couldn't make it as complex as you wanted.  If you wanted to reproduce a Civ-style tech tree in Sins you probably could.  The limit though is 8 tiers, you can't add any new categories (Defense, Diplomacy, Civilian, Warfare) besides what already exists, and the artifacts are hardcoded, but you can expand the Logistics category through some clever UI work if you run out of room in the other research categories.

Virtually unlimited I think, of course you are only limited by UI contraints other than that you can have military techs linked with civ techs and then have a chain of eight with three in each categroy, since it dynaimcally creates the links when you specify which techs are linked with what

ok, so it's all possible. The question now is: who wants to attempt such a beast?

Have yall ran it by boss man? If anything this will be a mini mod. You still need to run it by the boss first though.

Whoa, hold on there. So far, I'm just joining in the theoretical chit-chat. I haven't seen anything other than starbase planets promised. VeryBad has proposed the intial idea and SpardaSon proposed a different angle of approach. Anything beyond that is just us BSing. Besides, I can't do anything more than 2-D.

lol, i was just saying before anyone goes out there and starts any serious work on this...who ever might wanna run it by boss man officially.

He is slightly aggrivated at the lack of communication by some of us. I was just trying to prevent a thermonuclear war. LOL

And also I was giving my 2-cent that this should be a mini-mod addition IF it ever becomes more than chit chat.

Dont hit the Panic button yet there Draak

Well, what I really wanted to do was quote Ash from Army of Darkness: "I don't even know these a**holes!" but thought it a bit much.

As far as communication, who all is he unhappy with? If me, let me know how much and why, so I can fix it.

Is there a place one can go to download any of the maps from this mod? I found the one thread but it did not have nearly as many of the maps I was hoping for. The maps are awesome and I enjoyed this mod but it just caused massive lag.

want the maps without the lag..=/

You're never going to have a map without the lag unless you finish the game quickly.  I have a map pack, but it requires integration of my modified galaxyscenariodef and english.str files.  Well, not all of them need it, just the newer ones.  I fixed ocean planets not showing up and added in a ton of new random options and made the forge icons for them.  =]

Any of the maps in this mod require DS to use the maps.

If you want to make big maps just use the ingame map editor or fire up GalaxyForge. Your lag is gonna be the same no matter what mod your running or not running. Have you optimized your user settings yet? Empire tree trimming, no icons for tradeships are must for reducing lag IMHO.

tried out the new version and it was nuts! first time I played the actual rel. of diplomacy too so woah... shit changed no? Hey, are you guys still hosting those games? And er, how many of you play eve again?

DS Botz is watching you...errrrr....spamming you....ummm....force fed promoting.

Woah, one question at a time....

Yes. Things have changed and will again in the next release. To see the differences, compare this with that.

Yeah, sure.  Click here for more details.

I know Carbon does...  That's about all I know where Eve is concerned.

bump

Now here is the beauty of it, I dont have to say it anymore. It like I have a personal assistant now who does all my dirty work. ROFL

Just a friendly reminder of out get togethers tonight! See the MP topic for more details.