[Suggestions] Player scriptable AI, plus others

This is a mix of suggestions for gameplay enhancements that you might have considered already, perhaps they'll be good for a discussion, most require no graphics updates. However, like many others the game would profit from player-scriptable AI, if not government types, characters and slavery (and space marines). AI needs too much developer work not to be editable.

Government types:

Three races can become twelve without much extra work.

'Monarchy' +fighting skill, -economy

'Authoritarian' +cap +production time -research -economy

'Republic' +research +economy -cap -loyalty -diplomacy(except other Republics)

'Federation' (can have different sorts of planetary governments) -loyalty -diplomacy

And for multiplayer, a fifth type 'Anarchy' -research -diplomacy -economy -loyalty, as a handicap for better players.

Also, why not link specific AI player names to specific governments and strategies? Is there a list of race names to be modified?

Ships:

Often allowing minor units to gain personality gives a game extra charm. You could allow all ships to gain experience, with slight bonuses, not just capitals. Include a launch record (time and shipyard), as a non capship 'name'. Also, award ships honours for meritorious conduct, or 'kills', or major engagements.

If ships take damage more randomly it adds to the game, by making combat less certain. Armour penetration could lead to the possibility of explosions. Ships could burn more, as an optional setting.

Consuls:

Civil wars and emergent AI empires would add further elements to the culture aspect of the game. Degrade planetary efficiency further with distance from capital, then if you appoint a consul it can restore the former level and create a sector capital, also controlling planets that are closer to it than the capital. However the consuls could develop a nature dependent upon events- if the planet is bombed they become cowardly, raided by pirates corrupt, victorious in battle they become vainglorious etc. The consuls have a loyalty level and can take part of an empire over to civil war, creating a new AI faction- perhaps if financed by a rival empire devoting funds to subversion? They can be replaced or killed at a penalty to the loyalty of the remainder, or bribed, with a penalty to the loyalty of the envious ones. If the 'loyalty level' was displayed to the player much of the gameplay would be lost, though.

Another use for colony ships, land a diplomatic colony on an enemy capital, otherwise relations are capped below maximum. The embassy is destroyed if there is war. Ambassadors could be a variant on consuls, or another means of being rid of consuls.

Captive populations:

Colonial forces are assumed to fight to the death, but they could become slaves instead, to be worked to death, or returned to their parent culture. A diplomatic penalty with the culture would be one effect of slavery, but also multi-cultural rebellions- if a new AI faction was created in a civil war under the right conditions- had a planet been colonised long enough- it could be multi-cultural, which might be interesting, despite the poor start.

Pirates:

The pirates don't seem to be very piratical, more like mercenary terrorists. If the pirates were also independent AI players, with an economy dependent upon attacking trade and refinery ships, they would be more effective, and would be more active than simply returning to base after a mission and waiting. If the pirates became rich or numerous enough, they could even have the ability to establish further asteroid bases. The bounty would then be only for damage to other structures and ships.

This would make the pirates a pest to all the players if they were continually funded, but there would still be advantages to bounty.

Since cloaking devices are more valuable than gold to pirates, they would want them, and also the ability to disguise themselves as fleets belonging to allies. Cloak might hide them from any ship not large enough to carry advanced sensors. The pirates should have the ability to capture ships, its what pirates get up to! Should they also have a chance to steal discovered artifacts and take them to their base? The concentration on gauss guns seems dodgy... the main pirate base would be better defended if it had some natural protection from a nebula and/or asteroids, that the pirate ships were immune to.

AI:

With all games the developers have only so much time to test AI, which is often the last priority after the bugs, especially for multiplayer-capable games. I was disappointed with some releases that the Hard AI got simple resource bonuses, as this seems better restricted to 'unfair' levels. Also, if you lock two Normal AIs as a team against you 2v1, they were far easier to defeat than one single Hard AI, though I haven't tried thids on 1.12 yet. One solution to AI problems is to have an AI editor where variables or even scripts can be set by the player- then, over time, the community might produce a far better AI than the developers would be capable of making. No developer has yet gone to the final stage of releasing an official update with some of the improved community AIs. Have a scriptable AI battles competition, then profit from the innovations.

Entrenchment:

I haven't got the beta, but from the screens it seems that mines could be a problem for lag- though isn't phase space folded, leading to a possible limit on mine density? Also it seems odd to include minelayers and not minesweepers, perhaps the ships should have a dual role. With the new torpedo cruiser, how about specialised warheads, including anti-mine? An ability to subvert, rather than just destroy, mines might make them less attractive to place in vast fields, and they could also just be pushed out of position in phase space. Mine attacks could be more deadly, to compensate.

Starbases should easily outrange ships, since they have armoured non-mobile detection systems? Even if torp cruisers have to launch in range, they still have the advantage of not having to remain in range, while they recharge for another try, but this would have to be their combat routine. Also, if they are to be kept fairly weak a maximum of two per system, rather than one, would solve all coverage problems..?

Lastly, thanks for the game! Also thanks for leaving out an awful copy protection system. While I'm not fond of Impulse, it's easy to uninstall, and it seems reasonable to register the game to receive updates.

8,448 views 6 replies
Reply #1 Top

(ment with no disrespect)

Paragraphs please, it hurts my eyes to try to read it all at once.

Reply #2 Top

Can make again your post... with some space between part... one big block of text make it almost impossible to read...

 

Edit : ok, it is better now, i will read it...

Reply #3 Top

Thank you, much better

Reply #4 Top

AI : In a lot of game, AI are bad... Version after version, Stardock make it better... before add new thing, it is needed to resolve actual problem... making a good AI is not easy... i have some good AI ( not game AI ) on my own system but the rule file is some gb in size... so AI are not possible for a game...

 

Captive population : in some case, after bombard a planet, you cannot colonize it due to the strong culture... in some way, it is like what you ask... planet stay free until YOUR culture become more strong that these of other...

 

Pirate : try the evilTesla pirate mod or the rogue from the 7DS mod... sure that after try them, you will have wish that pirate/rogue have never exist... What make the difference is that these new pirate/Rogue are a player faction... they can take you structure, your planet or your ressource... Not really pirate but act in the same way are the Borg ( they assimilated your ship, structure and planet )... Pirate was a early difficulty in Vanilla Sins... some mod have made them a faction and you will regret to have ask more power for pirate... it made everything more difficult but add so much fun...

 

Entrenchment : no comment... i have uninstall it... but remember that it is a beta only... if Stardock work in the same way that before, they will resolve the problem and try to make it like customer ( us ) wish...

 

Impulse : my own complain... don't work ( for now ) with Linux... But for a PC user with win, impulse is not really a problem... the real problem is low class server who ask very long time for upgrade, connection problem, resume upgrade non-existing, big file size ( my own build 1.05 to 1.12 upgrade is only 200 mb when compare to these of impulse, it is very low )... Similar problem exist with the forum ( slow ) or the connection problem for online game... these are major problem... Impulse himself is a minor problem...

 

For the rest, i cannot comment... you have some good idea... maybe Stardock will use some of them for the next patch or if the change needed is too much big, for Sins 2.0... For now, i have the experience that Stardock listen to his customer... some time with some delay but they cannot make everything in the same time... Never forget that Stardock is a very little thing when compared to the big one... the team is little but they make the max that they can... I am a modder, some time ago, we have reach a hardcoded limit due to the number of sound... with some delay, they have rise these limit... now, we have reach a other limit, related to the number of texture and mesh... i trust that Stardock will resolve these problem too... ok, at the player level... the game is not yet one year old... how much upgrade since the 1.0, all trying to resolve some problem or following remarks of player... in some case, you have 2 or 3 patch in one month... i don't know other business who make like them ( just Linux make better that them but Linux have thousand of devs for free, Stardock need to pay their people, this reduce the team )...

 

By the way, thank you for remake your original post... it is now more easy to read and reply...

Reply #5 Top

Nice suggestions, though I think they'd have been better served in separate threads.

Idea about consuls is in good spirit - we should get more of the political side in space 4x games.

For personality of ships - frigates don't need it, they're common cannon fodder. Cruisers could have the launch date & system where it was built, and maybe number of major battles or kills or something like that. More for capital ships, could be really nice if Siddy could instead of "my marza has 4924 exp" say "my marza has 8 cap, 49 cruiser and 213 frigate kills". Abilities could be a bit more personalized within each capital type (eg. one marza is the missile barrage rig while another is mostly a planet razer). Build location could be important as well - some planets might churn out ships at 20% bonus but maybe weaker stats or even some unreliability factor (weapons getting jammed, phase drive acting up at the wrong moment...).

Reply #6 Top

I was hoping that there was a general government/diplomacy/piracy theme to my suggestions, so they merited a single thread. The slavery aspect of population was more as an added diplomatic element.

The pirate-as-player option is further than I'd want to go when extending the role of pirates.  However, with mines, the pirate base has another possible defence, and a mined pirate space junk defence seems more plausible than the current space Maginot.  Also, turrets would be much more useful if they were as cheap in terms of tactical slots as their value- why not double the tactical slots and the number of slots everything takes except turrets?  Then we could build as many as the pirates!

Why have the pirate ships collect at the base, when it has litle impact on gameplay and increases lag?  Critical numbers could trigger the establishing of a second and further bases, to be mined and surrounded by dangerous and possibly explosive junk that the pirates are familiar with.  The pirates could also support rebellions, or sell them ships to add to their Kodiak...  just get the ships more spread out and involved.

Why haven't the neutral worlds or pirates got space facilities, even if it's just a frigate yard with a repair facility and a few turrets?  If the pirates and the neutrals traded, the neutrals could build the pirates ships as well as increasing their own, using the trade profits and sale money.

Making a good AI isn't easy, but if there was competition they would get better, and the defaults would still exist.  Mods tend to split multiplayer and weaken understanding of the strategy of the game- while there are mods I've liked tremendously, I've always wanted elements of them added to the main game, not for them to remain mods.