[Idea]Buildable 'Planets' » Forum Post by blade2585

its not possible without rewriting the actual game. you can create a station in a planets grav well tho. but grav wells are the only way to actualy move in a map so you can not "build" new ones while in game.

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WarlokLord

Join Date 09/2007

+19

Being able to build a substantial base/colony/settlement, essentially terraforming and augmenting say a Dead Asteroid body, would be a very cool capability. Most definitely dependent upon vast amounts of research, resources, and time though.

Sounds like a Vasari development to me.

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well it would kick arse if you could modify what you can build ON planets as well as around them. but i dont think you can. i havent got the entrenchment beta but it certinally sounds like it would have more oppertunities to do stuf like this.

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I don't know how to mod, but what if you could find a way to make a space station ring around the planet. You would need to pay a huge amount of money metal and crystal and reserch all branches to add a planet ring that would have everything right there. It you be hangers, deffenses, refineries, brodcast center, and everything else, except for the big superweapons.

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Quoting StCobalt,

reply 1

its not possible without rewriting the actual game. you can create a station in a planets grav well tho. but grav wells are the only way to actualy move in a map so you can not "build" new ones while in game.

But it can be made before be in game...

A lot of new planet type was creatd with some mod... nothing stop you to create a newplanet type called "planet_starbase"... in place of using a usual sphere mesh, a more complex one can be used... by example, the pirate base use 14k poly... with 14k poly, you can make a intesting starbase...

In random map, they will pop-up in ramdom place but using a map editor, you can create a map where the planet starbase will be located where you wish...

Of course, they will act like planet... you cannot destroy them but you can colonize them... or bombard them if a ennemy own it... you will be able to build orbital structure around...

It will be only a visual thing... but nothing stop you to replace the mesh from by example the planet-terran-home by a mesh from the Starbase DS9 from Startrek... modify the entity file a little for add by example more tactical slot... add/remove/create some planetory bonus ( not sure that the level 1 or 2 will work on a home planet but a 0 or -1 will normally work )... and the result will be that you home planet at the game start is the DS9 starbase... moving your home to a other planet in game will not transform it in a starbase... it is only the start home for any player...

Next month, for the andromeda project, i will try to make the reverse... a sun and planet moving and attacking like a battleship... nothing stop me to use the mesh i will ( just the poly limit ) with the texture i will ( just the texture size )... in these case, sun can be destroy by attacking him... and these will be buildable in game...

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Quoting Thoumsin,

reply 5

Quoting StCobalt, reply 1its not possible without rewriting the actual game. you can create a station in a planets grav well tho. but grav wells are the only way to actualy move in a map so you can not "build" new ones while in game.

But it can be made before be in game...

A lot of new planet type was creatd with some mod... nothing stop you to create a newplanet type called "planet_starbase"... in place of using a usual sphere mesh, a more complex one can be used... by example, the pirate base use 14k poly... with 14k poly, you can make a intesting starbase...

In random map, they will pop-up in ramdom place but using a map editor, you can create a map where the planet starbase will be located where you wish...

Of course, they will act like planet... you cannot destroy them but you can colonize them... or bombard them if a ennemy own it... you will be able to build orbital structure around...

It will be only a visual thing... but nothing stop you to replace the mesh from by example the planet-terran-home by a mesh from the Starbase DS9 from Startrek... modify the entity file a little for add by example more tactical slot... add/remove/create some planetory bonus ( not sure that the level 1 or 2 will work on a home planet but a 0 or -1 will normally work )... and the result will be that you home planet at the game start is the DS9 starbase... moving your home to a other planet in game will not transform it in a starbase... it is only the start home for any player...

Next month, for the andromeda project, i will try to make the reverse... a sun and planet moving and attacking like a battleship... nothing stop me to use the mesh i will ( just the poly limit ) with the texture i will ( just the texture size )... in these case, sun can be destroy by attacking him... and these will be buildable in game...

you totaly missed the "upgrade" part of the post. essentialy what he ment was can you UPGRADE a planet to have a new MESH, which is NOT possible as of this point (im not sure about entrenchment) and he also mentions "Building planets" or so to say which is also not possible.

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Quoting invisiboy,

reply 4

I don't know how to mod, but what if you could find a way to make a space station ring around the planet. You would need to pay a huge amount of money metal and crystal and reserch all branches to add a planet ring that would have everything right there. It you be hangers, deffenses, refineries, brodcast center, and everything else, except for the big superweapons.

not possible in the game engine. you can make a mesh with the "ring" affect that will always be there reguardless, but nothing upgradable. i speak for vanilla sins, im not sure about entrenchments capabilities since i dont got it.

HOWEVER, if you are a modeler and can create the meshes/textures, you can set the grav well of the planet to be extreamly small and have the stations and whatnot remodeled to "look" like a ring. entrenchment will have a lot more options for ideas like yours from what i can tell but dont quote me on what is possible or not in it.

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I have not miss the upgrade part... planetory module will be the upgrade part... planet is the basic starbase, planet module will be option added to it...it will give the impression that the station grow with each new option...

You will say that module cannot be in contact with the planetstarbase because the are in collision box and the engine don't allow it... it is where the particule effect is coming... it is particule effect who link the planet module to the planetstarbase... particule effect are not stopped by the collission box...a simple tunnel/conduct from the planet mesh to outside the planet box will be enough... will be more easy that the reverse since planet are perfectly centered on any axes...

Maybe one problem... have not yet think about it... planet rotate... if we cannot stop the rotation, everything will be misluck since the particule effect will rotate with the planet...

Other case, about a ring, you can create one around a planet but from test and trial, you need minimum 3 pieces identical... and it will work only around planet who have all the same inner gravity wheel... around asteroid, it not work... and gravity wheel will be to much little... and no AI player allowed, will explain why later...the 3 basic part will be the same mesh, with always oriented to the planet set in the entity file, they will be one cheap planetory module without any function, only for the eyes... the other planetory module will be options...

For mister "impossible" some picture who illustrate the principle...

First section :

Second section :

Last section :

Now, the theorie :

blue box are the mesh box... red ring is the inner limit of the planet gravity wheel ( identic for all planet, different for asteroid, for sun, pirate base and gas giant )

Yellow part are place where the mesh need to be change... yellow part need to be some connection ( simple cylinder is good )... box 6a, 6b, 6c are planetary module... need to recreate all the mesh of module, so they will have the same box and will connect perfectly to the basic station...

Why the project was stopped... modeling is really difficult and complex trigonometric calculation are needed for the mesh part will will be in contact... mesh size need to be calculated too in function of the inner ring... position of the piece is in someway difficult... but mainly, the AI screw everything... he build basic part of the ring everywhere and not near the planet... result is ugly for AI player and it slow down my fleet when i try to attack them ( need to go around all the piece ) and capital are very slow for rotate... my ship don't attack the piece since they have no value and since i have give them 100k hull !!!

So, the engine itself will allow you to make a lot of think... 1.05 was good enough for it... AI is the real problem... you cannot predict how they will react and how they will use new thing in game... Similar problem was existing with the ship graveyard... with AI putting a lot of ship there who was just sitting and waiting... AI have act like the derelic ship was a danger but was not fighting... or sending a colony ship to capture the derelict ship...

Since the AI cannot be modded, it is a dead end... you can only use what is implement by Stardock... It is why so much people complain about the Entrenchment... AI spam mine... not a big problem, stardock will tune the AI and change the behaviour... screw the gameplay for a ring is not really important...

People, believe me... the sins engine can allow you to make a lot of thing if you have the needed imagination... by example, there is 1.05 mod with starbase... or the B5 ship with rotating piece using the particule system... engine is not a big problem ( unless your reach his harcoded limit ) but the AI and gameplay is a real problem... gameplay can be tuned with entity file but AI is out of our reach... no rules file that we can tune...

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well if it works out in the sins engine and the AI can actualy use it and you dont run into hardcoaded limits it would be interesting. But as for grouping all the buildings together it would be no diffrent than just remodeling them and building them close to the planet.... essentialy the same thing as what i mentioned earlier about haveing a smaller grav well and building things close to the planet to give an added effect. another thing you could try is seeing how the little city colinies that are on the actual planet itself are created and how they work with the planet. if you can remodel them and make them larger as well as reposition them so that as the planet grows new rings get added you MIGHT be able to acheive the same affect.

and to the last poster, is that in the sins engine in game itself?

and yes it can be versatile, but its still limited as far as AI and some other features go. but as you said, you have to use your immagination and some of the things will be able to be overcome.

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Quoting StCobalt,

reply 9

and to the last poster, is that in the sins engine in game itself?

Not the screenshot... but i have try it long ago... and like explain, AI is the main problem... second problem is the huge modeling work... pieces ( planetary module ) are in a invible box... not to think about them when model...

another thing you could try is seeing how the little city colinies that are on the actual planet itself are created and how they work with the planet. if you can remodel them and make them larger

They are called planet elevator... they are mesh... but very little can be make with them... vary in size from 350 triangle to a little lower that 100 triangle... Texture at maximum 250x250... they are more numerous on a fully developped planet... the mesh are called "PlanetElevator-" + race ( "Phase-", "Psi-", "Tech-" ) + type ( "Bunker", "CrystalExtractor", "CultureCenter", "GoodsFactory", "MetalExtractor", "ProductionCenter", "TaxCenter" ) + ".mesh".... a total of 21 mesh...

About size, number of them, traject, etc, data are in the PlanetElevators.data( it is only for the moving part )

Can make them on or off in the game menu... usually, on huge map, late in game, i put them off... spare ram for the game itself...

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well, we will have to see what possibilities entrenchment brings to moding before sometihng like this can be implemented and actualy work porperly.

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Quoting StCobalt,

reply 11

well, we will have to see what possibilities entrenchment brings to moding ...

First, Entrenchment is a expension pack that you need to pack... boxed version will be realease a long time after, when other expension are finish... not a very good move for a mod to obligate someone to buy a expension...

Second, in the actual version ( who is a beta ), Entrenchment use a lot of system resource ( by example memory ),and it will allow few room for mod... hope that these problem will be resolved in the final release... on large and huge map, after a few hours, the game reach the windows ram limit...

Second problem, unless they change the harcoded limit for mesh and texture in the final version, some previous working mod in 1.12 can reach these harcoded limit because Entrenchment use already a lot of more mesh that the 1.12... for each starbase, you have several mesh... one without option ( basic ) and one for each option (upgrade )... mean a lower limit for mesh/texture in case of mod...

In some way, entrenchment is already a super-mod since it is based on the 1.12 version... online game where someone have not Entrenchment rhe game will fallback to the 1.12...

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