and again pal!

Many levels of tricking [ahhh  AKA --> stealing..] the system... WTF? that's like saying there are many levels of murder [well.. man 1, man 2, but that's not the point]

Stealing is stealing pal, warez is a no-no   and it's pretty dumb to make it publically known, that you are/might be/considering/actually--->  doing it.

Sure, I agree, thing's are WAY over-priced, but it doesn't give you/me/the neighbour/the neighbour's dog/ anyone, the auto-right to thieve it because you/we can't afford it

Seriously, where in the world can you honestly say 'I STOLE THIS LEGALLY'?

^Indeed.

An upgrade version isn't tricking the system, it's there for a purpose. You still pay for it either way, whether it's an upgrade or full version. It's just another option.

Well, since you're in Oz, Tailsgirl, perhaps you're not aware of the United States "bail out" program for a bunch of failed banks and the auto industry and now we come to find out they weren't all that honest about their situations, so, I think the banking institutions could probably say they've stolen the taxpayer's money legally.  Which is maybe how people like CommanderAdama can pirate with a clear conscience.  After all, in his 19 years, what has he had for role models?  Our highest level leaders are completely crooked and it seems like if you watch them carefully, they do it by convincing themselves they aren't doing anything wrong, they deserve to be showered with lovely things they don't have to pay for, and the real trick to pulling it off is acting like there is nothing wrong with doing it (a lot of Jedi mind tricks).

You also have to keep in mind that CommanderAdama, at a ripe 19 years of age, probably doesn't have that much to lose (that he can actually see).  I can't pull that crap off, because I have children and a spouse to feed, house, and be responsible for.  I risk a lot more by attempting borderline activities than he does -- people are counting on me to keep this dog and pony show going.  All he has is himself to be responsible for, so if the law cracks down on him...no big deal.  He either gets hung with a big fine to pay, or goes to jail...still no biggy for a 19-year-old -- especially if he doesn't have a GF or other romantic interest.  Just one more institution to do his time at, make friends and enemies, exist another day. (plus, and this irks me to no end, if he goes to prison, he gets health care, and higher education access that he wouldn't get by being an upstanding citizen, because the courts view him as underprivileged which is why he committed the crime, so they'll give him opportunities to redeem his life so when he gets out, he won't be in the same circumstances that led him to commit the crime in the first place).  Be that as it may, jail/prison IS a giant anxiety trip (watching your back 24/7, so you don't get jumped or shanked or...other things).

I don't agree with what CommanderAdama implies that he does, but I do understand it.

I understand it too Karen, and I've downloaded a sh!tlload of warez in my day...   hey, I'm honest about it.. but I've grown up, and out of that, and c'mon, who hasn't downloaded a crack for something.... , but after many a virus, and guilty conscience.. and 15 or so years on... despite being not so well off.. I find it more rewarding to pay for something when I've got the money.... then -->  I OWN it.. legit, and that's the way I want it.

 

I have also raised a son on my own... but that doesn't give me the A-O-K to steal the next OS.

A properly organised XP start menu is twenty times faster and easier to use than a Vista start menu:-

No clicking and scrolling to get where you want. Just one click and a mouse move.

And if you are in the wrong place, simple, just move your mouse - no click, click, scroll, click, click, scroll...

i am a student at my university, and we have discount prizing for students, especially on MS products.  To give you an idea, MS visual studio pro 2008 costs around 1036 dollars canadian.  For us, we only have to pay 106 dollars canadian.  So windos 7 will be peanunts to me anyways, probably less than 50 dollars for me.

I haven't.... have seen/read about too many issues/potential issues to even consider it.

Besides, I have piss-poor bad luck doing everything legit, so I'd be bound to be caught doing something non-legit and have it cost me thrice the price and more.

Not only that, my mother taught me not to steal by frog-marching back to Woolworths for stealing a plastic toy chicken when I was a 4 y/o.... even at that tender age it was too embarrassing, not to mention too scary, to ever contemplate doing it again.

Sadly it's a sign of the times, that the current trend towards leniency within the judicial system filters down though society and far too many kids today are not being disciplined in a way that would help them think twice about doing wrong.  It's like the family I know of who advocated stealing and the like by encouraging shoplifting and taking their kids on night-time raids of Lifeline and St Vinnies charity bins. When confonted about what they were teaching their children, all we got was: "They're just kids, what can the law do to them?"  So, not only were these parents teaching their kids wrong, they were wrongly teaching them that they are immune to the law and there are no consequences to worry about.

It might be considered un-Australian to dob anyone in, but people like this make me sick because the kids suffer and honest society ulimately ends up paying more, so yeah, I and a few others went to the cops... hopefully the 5 years jail they got for the corruption minors under the age of 12 will teach them in future to teach their children well.

 

ROFL.. Is good to see I am not the only one with this memory that still lingers like it was yesterday.. Tho mine was a hot wheel.

Not to start an argument for or against piracy, but it's not about stealing or not, but about the definition of theft, and even so, it's not about legality, but morality. I.e. "Is illegality always amoral?" or "Does copyright infringement equal theft?".

I, for example, can quite easily say "I copied this legally", depending on the circumstances.

Id pay 50 euros. But luckly thanks to my work I get all windowses free with unlimited install. But I probably still stick with XP for half year after Win7 is released. I like my windows simple and clean.

Umm... seriously, I don't give a shit what you do, download all the warez you want dude, but don't judge me because I've gotten over that stage, okidoki?   also, I didn't mean to sound all judgemental on you..sorry 'bout that.. just some folks it takes a while for them to save up for something, while other's are getting  TEH CRACK

i tihnk software piracy is more of an moral issue than a legal issue.  at least that is how people alywas presents it to be.  The honest truth is, everyone turns a blind eye towards it.  The law is being ineffective in dealing with it, sooo the only resorts society can use to mitigate the problem is telling people that it is wrong morally.  But people will do it on a continue basis if they can get away wiith it.  

 

 

LOL ...park out side Sony HQ and start selling Pirated Music of theirs on CD out of the back of a van, and see how Legal it is. Whether you "choose" to feel it is immoral or not, is moot to them.

Copyright infringement is theft, whether you choose to believe it or not. People get paid to make materials, be it Digital media, or hard copy, when you choose to take that which you have not paid for .. you take the very $$ they use to feed their families. less sales = less $$.

While you may percieve the Big corporations as faceless entities, the reality is when you steal from them, it's not the Big wigs that get hit the hardest, it's the average joe working in the mail room who got laid off as sales declined * too bad he has 3 kids to feed huh?*. Or the customers who have to Pay increasing prices to pay for all the antipiracy crap they imbed in to stuff like music. Not to mention not being able to listen to your music on your PC because it has a burner attached etc..

No one is really sticking it to the "man" when they pirate, they are really just sticking it to the rest of us.

Sorry If I deviated from the threads topic. But i cant understand peoples thinking of "if I rationalize it out, it's not wrong to do" that and trying to split hairs to justify ones actions.

You will find in a community such as this where our hobby and livelihoods are based around copyrights and the protection there of, little tolerance for Piracy/copyright infringement justification.

 

Quite easily saying it is one thing... being true/correct is another...

The same can be said for a serial killer.  If the law [police] are ineffective then  'they can get away with it'.

No matter what spin is put on that, though....'most' would likely agree it's just 'not on' to be a serial killer.

Ah...the good old ELEVENTH COMMANDMENT....."Thou shalt not get found out'.....;)

Re the actual thread topic tho.....so far I kinda like win 7 ....it even behaves in VMware [runs faster than the host -XP].

I most likely will [steal] Frogboy's machine so I can run it with 'headroom'...and 200 USD would be fair .....I paid 180 AUD [OEM] for my XP Pro...;)

You rock Jafo, TEH man

That is quite ridiculous.  Why should a corporation, which provides jobs, be forced to pay a substantial increase?

 

Let me also just make a note that piracy is not tolerated at all.  If you want to advocate stealing software, and yes it is stealing, I suggest not being so open about it here. 

 

Amen

I think I paid $30-35 for MSDOS 3.0 when it came out.......seems like a good price for software that doesn't need consant patching to run

You missed the point. Depending on the circumstances, I could be entirely correct. But what I argued wasn't the right or wrong of piracy, but the issues of the statement that "I STOLE THIS LEGALLY", wheter in a sarcastic sense or not.

Haha, oh wow. Talk about flying off the handle. I wouldn't even think this addressed to me (since you are arguing against points I didn't even make) if you didn't quote me directly.

Since this isn't the thread for it, I'm not going to take the time to pick your arguments apart. After all, I have yet to make any argument for or against piracy whatsoever. I am, however, opposed to nonsensical arguments, wheter they are made on my part of the fence or the oppositions.

That's a straight-out lie. What constitutes theft is different from nation to nation or society to society (depending on wheter you're speaking of legal or moral definition, respectively).

For example, in Sweden, it is not illegal to download or own copyrighted software. It is, however, illegal to share it. It is the act of sharing itself that is illegal. The morality of the action is up to philosophers, in turn.

Bullshit mate, warez/wares is warez no matter WHAT Country you're stealing it from.

...... what next? you going into a Stardock topic, and asking them for the crack for one of their products

What Island Dog was saying was...to put it in plain English exempt from mis-interpretation....

Stardock [the owner of this site and associated software] has a Zero Tolerance for Warez Use.  The determination of what may or may not constitute 'warez use' is solely the responsibility of the site owners and their agents, so, the decision whether copyright infringement or warez use is to be declared 'theft' and acted upon is theirs alone as much as it pertains to Wincustomize.com site users and/or any other of Stardock's sites.

Philosophical discussion of warez is fine.  Promotion of warez-use isn't....;)

Bravo/ to all the folks who felt that it was wrong. I don't want my name on a thread where theft is advocated, and theft it is. Period. Can the sophistry.

W7: Mumblefutz and Fuzzy make good, in fact very good points about W7. I get the feeling that all Vista was in fact was a trial/iron the bugs out version of 7. And we paid for it even if it was on the machine you purchased...it's included in the price.

If it could be proven that this is true, then I think I'd go with "You're entitleed to it free", since we bought it and participated in the improvement of it (all the problems posted anywhere are harvested...along with crashes, erc. that are sent to MS).

IMHO