TEC strategy question

Ehhh I'm not an authority on the matter, but Advent typicaly have the best fleets by late game so if your playing TEC vs Advent your going to have to win early in order to win easily.

If your getting late game as TEC your going to have to shift stratagies away from just trying to match him ship for ship, fleet for fleet, you simply can't do it.

With him taking the time to FF down your whole fleet you may want to reposition your stratagey by queing up replacement ships before the battle is even halfway through. You can set up 2-3 friggate factories on 2-3 "support" worlds and set a shared rally point for them and have another fleet ready in no time provided you have the credits.

-Assuming- this is late game you should be fully researched for construction as TEC so 100 TEC ships lost isn't as big as a deal vs 100 Advent ships lost.

So you may want to try to wear him out over the course of repeat engagements. 

My friend and I do the TEC versus advent game often. He needs to crush me early OR he's found out that the 2-4 Kols set to AA fire will just slaughter my strike craft. The issue we've run into is in mass fleet engagements assuming everything else is even my raptures will win me the fight due to ship stealing unless he's replenishing units faster than I can steal units.

150 squadrons means your opponent is using 50 carriers, or roughly 1000 fleet supply invested in carriers. That costs 64K credits, 11500 metal, and 11000 crystal.

80 Flak frigates means you invested 320 fleet supply. Would you send 32 heavy cruisers against 250 disciples? Probably not.

Try 200 flak. Seriously. That's 800 fleet supply, which is still less than your opponent is pumping into carriers. This will cost you 75K credits(as tec this isn't a problem), 8000 metal, and 5000 crystal. That's a good deal cheaper than the carrier fleet, especially where it counts.

The main problem people have using flak frigates is that flak can't fight carriers in a 1:1 ratio. This ends up confusing people into thinking that flak is ineffective, when really they're being used in insufficient numbers. Fleet costs mean you can afford to have a flak frigate for every squadron on the field, which is more than capable of laying the hurt down. Very few special abilities will spare the lives of the shieldless, typically unhealable strike craft, they rely sheerly on pure numbers.  As soon as you can start killing craft faster than they get replaced, carriers have no chance of recovering from it, and you'll have them on the run.

Take note that this kind of combat will REALLY stress your computer resources. Hundreds of frigates, with many independent guns, against over a thousand potential targets will do that.

Flak frigates seem to annihilate fighter craft first (which will deal with those 100 pesky fighter squadrons no problem), but have a tougher time killing bombers(which fighter squadrons are FAR better at). Don't forget to upgrade your flak weapons for the best effect!

Get Insurgency and other TEC boom techs up and running

Go full fighters on your carriers, mix in hoshikos and get some kodiaks in there with the micro-jump tech

Also, some ceilos would be usefull. As would a Lvl6 Marza to take out some of his ships OR a Lvl 6+ Kol with flak burst...

To be honest, I’ve never found flak frigates on their own to be particularly great - they’ll ‘win’ against carriers eventually, but by time they really start to take affect, half your fleet is already dead. Admittedly trying to beat the Advent strike craft spam is always going to be an uphill struggle, but I have found there are a few things that can help (disclaimer: this is just personal experience, not bona fide best practice).

Personally, I prefer to skip the flak frigates at first and build some carriers (cruisers, not cap ship) of your own, and churn out some fighters. You’re never, ever, ever going to be able to beat Advent at strike craft spamming, especially given how mediocre Tec strikers are, but I’ve found a solid chunk of fighters (20-30) can at least bog the enemy down long enough to deal some real damage with your main fleet.

Second is cap ship selection. Kol battleships are always a good choice for any situation, but flak burst is particularly effective against advent’s strike craft (which, for those who didn’t know, have the most units per squadron, but are also the most fragile per ship). Believe it or not, the Dunov is also a good choice later on – EMP depletes shields and antimatter, and magnetise stop abilities and kills / stuns strike craft, so that’s ticking all the boxes… though I’d probably go one or the other, as it’s nice to have shield recharge.

Finally, there’s the bulk of you fleet. I’ve got no idea what the optimal mix is, but I’ve found spamming LRMs with a few Hoshikos and carriers early works well, and then just dilute it down with ceilos and flak frigates if you can spare some research later on. Yes, I said I didn’t think flak were great on their own, but their 360 degree fire arc mean they’re good at finishing off damage squadrons. Besides, Bobucles makes a good point – they’re cheap.

Again, this isn't necessarily the best strategy, but an alternative one to the above posts.

one other way to counter him is to build 4-5 smaller fleets, of 400-500 fleet supply, more than adequate for planetary defenses, and go around him. if he is keeping his fleet together, then he can only conquer one planet at a time, while you can conquer 4-5 times as many in the same time

Carrier swarms have MASSIVE antimatter reserves, which are easily good for rebuilding strike fleets several times over. The WORST case scenario is that he can rebuild strike craft as fast as you can kill them, which keeps his fleet strength at full and wastes your forces battling a renewable resource. This is usually why players try a bit of flak and then get discouraged. If you're going to counter strike craft, you have to do it completely and make the kill quickly, or you'll end up getting attritioned down.

Tech light frigates can do additional damage to a carrier's antimatter reserve. They also outrun carriers by a ton, making them a decent choice to give chase.

Long range frigates could possibly be your WORST choice against carriers, as they both have very similar mobility. The carriers can evade LRMs for a long time, ruining most of the LRM's damage. Carriers also typically have a high number of fighters as default, which rape LRMs.

I may not be a big name online or have the most expericence but I do know TEC.

When playing TEC you need numbers your ships are weaker but at optimal cost, ergo 80-100 flaks w/ not much cover vs 150 or so squadrens and a small fleet behind then made up of gaurdians and........colony ships.....seriously ?

 You need about 120-150 flack 15-30 carriers, all loaded with 100% fighters and (this is the important part) 2-4 Kol Battleships with flak burst at max priority as well as another fleet made up of several dozen light friggates, LRM, and a handfull of Kodak cruisers with an escort of flaks and carriers.

If your takeing the fight to him take the main fleet (minus the Kols) and attack the planet with the advent fleet, then part-way through the fight then send the Kols as the reinforcements fly them straight into the mass of swarming fighers and bombers and spam flack burst ability and use finest hour if you can this should DECIMATE his fighters after that (or better yet while the kols distract him) launch your second fleet (from a differnt planet if you are able) and circumvent their fighters to get at the carriers you should hopefully get about half to 3/4 of his carriers (although the running carrier problem might draw it out) before he falls back out of the gravity well

The stategy for defending is simpler just put your Kol's right where he whould come out of the gravity well and as soon as he launches fighters spam flak burst and you should hear their sobbing from where you are

It may be long winded but hope it helped! Stratagy Ninja awwwwaaaaayyyyyyyyy...........

Sixteen Progenitors? One thing your opponent is definitely missing is ship-to-ship firepower (although you can be relieved that those 800 fleet points are not spent on even more Aeria Drone Hosts).

Worst case scenario, your opponent has 800 points in capitals, 210 points worth of Guardians, and therefore, on normal fleet settings up to 990 points of Drone Hosts (in version 1.1, that amounts to maximum 49 Drone Hosts, with 10 leftover points)

With the 1.1+ updates, though, the Aerias actually are physically harder to kill and carry more strike craft squadrons (3 versus 1). Like a lot have suggested, use Kols with Flak Burst, since at max level, strike craft suffer 60 damage, which is enough to instantly kill any Advent Fighter caught inside the radius (maximum hull their fighters can have is 52), barring maximum research in hull points and armor. Just don't leave it on autocast, or the AI will waste your battleship's antimatter, which is a very limited resource for them (this becomes less of a problem with a Dunov and Flux Field).

If your friend lumps all these ships into one fleet, make a second fleet to attack an exposed planet of his. Either the attacks go ignored and you can raid deeper into their empire, or their fleet is split up and one part goes off to respond, making each portion easier to handle. Having 2000 fleet supply and 16 capitals is expensive, requiring all of Fleet Logistics to be researched, and taking out sources of income will definitely hurt when 75% of income is lost to fleet upkeep.

Usually my fleet consists of more than a dozen carriers, plus my sova carrier, I find that flake gunship really useless

Which of the squadrons better fighters? or bombers?

personally, I find that bombers are more useful, if you build a few fighters, and the rest bombers, flake frigate usually just target the fighters, instead of the bombers

Flak and and fighters, those are your two best options. And as TEC, that also means massive numbers. At least one flak per carrier, and half again as many carriers of your own running pure fighters. Once you have the strike craft gone, he has a bunch of very expensive and defenseless cargo ships. The real trick is, once the SC are gone, you have to kill the majority of the carriers or they'll be back later. You could use the flaks for that, maybe, in a huge group FF'ing but it would be slow. Let more than half escape and you can't claim victory.

While the Kol seems like a good idea, with that many strike craft any high priority/value target will get inst-gig'd. Even if you had a pair of Kol's with max'd flak burst, you'd still loose one on the first pass. Later in the battle with most of the strike craft gone a Kol would be good to stomp clumps of new strike craft, but initially, no. But by this time, the battle should be going your way regardless. The possibility of some cheap shots might be cool, like having two level 6 marzas waiting at his jump point in your system for two instant missile barrages, the chances of pulling them off are slim.

Another option might be going around his fleet. Jump past with three marzas with Raze Planet max'd. You could nuke planets almost as fast as a bunch of novaliths. He'd have to pull back to defend.

Personally, i'd split my fleets. have a huge pack of flaks follow his carriers, and ravage his systems with smaller groups if he's stupid enough to group everything into one spam Uber-fleet. Kill his supply chains, and sooner or later he'll run out of steam.

Heres an easy thing to do with TEC to stop annoying advent.

1. early game build 5 scouts and make sure you dont lose any of them.

2. when your done building your 3 millitary labs research timed explosivses.

3. take all 5 scouts and bomb his hostility labs.

4. Repeat every three minutes cause thats how long the you have to wait in between uses.

5. ????

6. PROFIT!!!!!!

Wow, thanks everyone!

@Jedmonds24;

I do queue additional ships from any supporting planets, but he doesn't really fight fair, he'll jump in, blow something expensive up and jump out. Occasionally it will be half his force he does this with and while im getting ready to defend the grav well, a second craft only fleet comes at my flank and ruins me.

@Archon143;

I haven't tried that. He just switched from Vasari to Advent so I havent had much practice with their anti-strike craft abilities.

@Bobucles;

Wow, i didnt even think of that! I assumed since flak frigs are the hard counter to strike craft i wouldnt need to match his fleet supply, but you have a valid point - I just hate flak because, as you mention, they dont "feel" strong for people who are just starting to use them. I wont have issues with my PC's resources. I have a self built $7,000.00 hardcore gaming PC and since im on the topic i play on a 52 inch 1080p sony hdtv .

I'll scale up my flak appropriately and see how that  works.

@Hack78;

I've tried that fleet style, but he doesn't stay and fight. He'll jump in blow up some caps , and jump out. he wont fight fleet to fleet. it's all very guerilla tactics. He can destroy stuff quicker than i can rebuild my fleet so after a few jumps in and out I cant match him.

@frozen_chips;

I'll Try this after i try the 200+ flak and let you know how it turns out.

@eoncommander;

Another great idea i'll try, third in the queue.

@psyco567;

He uses colony caps because of their shielding ability and the way the fleet forms on "stand your ground" or what every its called. At any given time, no ship of his is not within the range of 6 capital ships that will help regen shields. Very good idea with the KOL where he jumps in, but he usually send in a scout to see which side of the grav well he should jump in from. I'll include this into my first attempt and see how it goes.

@InfiniteVoid;

Another great analysis of the situation using the ingame numbers. We generally do large fleet sizes and i agree, without strike craft he has very low DPS.I'll be sure not to leave the flak burst on autocast.

@General_Harada;

As i mentioned earlier in this post. He wont fight head to head, his fleet stays at the endge of the grav well and the first thing they do is turn around to face the "run away" direction. Once i start killing his strike craft he just jumps away. I will definately try the split fleets. I would usually try to stop his uber fleet with a TEC quazi uber fleet but it doesnt work. I havent had a single cap that survived for more than 15 seconds after he jumps in. So three marze if they ever are in the same grav well will get wiped in 2 strike craft passes. He hates Marza and always targets them first if nothing is close to his drone hosts.

@everyone;

Thanks you all for the strategies. I will incorporate a little of it all into a few tests and then see how it plays out in actual gameplay. Sins is an amazing game, Third Best of all time.

Disclaimer; I dont care about spelling, grammar or punctuation.

If you want to get anywhere with flak frigates, you typically need at least one frigate per enemy SQUADRON. Any race can pull this off, at a lower cost than the carriers, and still have plenty of fleet supply to spare.

Your opponent jumps in and out? Try building PJI's. Carriers can wipe out a single jump inhibitor in seconds. However, spread out 4-5 of them, and you'll start to make problems for his fleet. Your opponent will be forced to kill the PJIs to make his escape. That's less gunfire going to the rest of your valuable targets, strong chokepoints to place flak brigades, and more time for you to shoot at his carriers. Countering that level of carrier brutality with hangar defenses just won't work.

Nope.  The cooldown is 900 seconds. Thats 15 minutes! (To wait in between uses).

OK..you are describing someone with a maxed out 2K supply fleet.  You should have a MASSIVE fleet by then -- maxed out or close to it yourself.  If he has superior numbers as Advent AND superior economy, well...you are kind of screwed.

That said, Bobucles is absolutely correct, you need a lot of flak to flat out counter carriers.  And the carriers can still jump in and assassinate something, and then run.  And Bobucles is again giving you good advice on multiple PJI, hopefully backed by repair bays.

So...at this point, assuming your enemy has commited to this huge carrier fleet backed by Progens + Guardians.....

You make tons of cobalts.   You use something like

140 Cobalts w/ anti reactor ability
80 Hoshikos w/ sabotage or whatever it is called (2nd ability)
20 Carriers
50 Flaks
3 Kol
2 Dunov
2 Marza
15 Kodiak

Or some variation on this, as you see fit.

You have to be able to pursue carriers to hurt them.  If the other guy keeps double jumping his carriers, they will be at low antimatter.  So you pursue them.

You keep your ships in a bunch so your Hoshikos can do their work.  If you can handle micro managing splitting fleet elements, make sure you leave groups of Hoshiko's with each element so everything has repair capability, especially your capitals.  If it is too much to manage, keep your fleet together ... and just let the Hoshiko's repair as best they can.  If you use seperate fleets to manage things, put Hoshiko's in each fleet.

By now your enemy probably has 35 Tactical units of defense in an area smaller than downtown Manhattan and is huddling his ships around it, so if you DO decide to eventually drive up to it, try and make sure a Kol is in front to take the damage.  But first, you want him to attack you with strikecraft.  You micro the use of your Kols' Flak on your Kols and decimate his fighters when big waves pass over.  Suddenly, the remaining fighters are a number that your 50 flak can work with!

You use your carriers to launch fighters against Illuminators.   if he has a LOT of Illuminators, you will need more fighters before you transition to Cobalts....if he has tons of Illuminators, you might in fact have to use tons of Kodiaks with lots of carriers to provide fighter cover vs bombers

Now, he might not want to send his fighters against you right away, if he is smart, fearing your Kols.  He wants you to charge his strongpoint first.  And you will, just as soon as you bomb the living crap out of his planet by driving around the strong point and unleashing your Marza's, and the other caps to assist.  Keep ships clustered!  By now he is launching fighters and you can use the Kol Flak Burst!

When you approach his mass of Progen's + Guardians + Repair Bays + Carriers, use your Dunov Emp burst...  It will wreak havoc with the Advent antimatter and shields.  Make sure you cycle them effectively so that when they start to recover the 2nd Dunov burst hits! Then let your cobalts start popping things as they use their anti reactor abilities liberally, as well as the Hoshiko 2nd tier ability.  (sorry, forget name)

He will be building Illuminators at this point because he has no direct fire capability.  Keep killing them with your Kodiaks and fighters.  That is why you have them.  Remember to use a Flak burst now and then and keep the Kol out front so whenever things retarget after killing a ship,they immediately lock on the Kol, which is cycling its shield ability.   If you have a lvl 6 Dunov, flux field that Kol!  Whenever he recolonizes the planet, just kill it again with a Marza.  If your fighters are mostly dead, ..heck, even if they aren't, feel free to put Magnetize Hull on one of his Progen's.

You should be pumping replacements into the fight from your side of the lines as fast as you can to replace whatever he is killing....

As his carriers are kind of useless here, he will probably go try to raid you!  This is wonderful!   If it is just the carriers, you detach the cobalts, flak, and 20-30 Hoshiko's and chase them down, killing them easily as they try to cross your PJI worlds.  If it is his whole fleet, you follow...except for one Marza and a full Hoshiko escorts to clean up and recolonization efforts.

Eventually, your Marzas should start hitting level 6, at which point you Barrage his entire defensive zone.  He will probably fall back to his next world at some point, maybe with his carriers.  You just leave one Marza behind if you have to clean up his colony again, and you immediately chase him to the next world so his carriers can not replenish their antimatter and fully rebuild their strikecraft.  Ignore the 20-30 tactical hardpoint of defenses he left. (except PJI!  You have to kill those)  Just fly around it for awhile.  His next worlds are probably not as well defended, and if he keeps falling back, you just keep having your trailing Marza raze em as you pursue and screw up his fleet.

Anyhow, this is just an example of how to fight a fleet with his composition, trying to cover some scenarios.  Lots of armor upgrades and lots of Hoshiko's, backed by appropriate counters.  If you can't muster a near equivalent size fleet, then your problem is not just fleet composition; it is that he is outplaying you too.  Then you have other problems 

that is utterly brilliant! here we have a master tactician. and so detailed a description too. can i hire you as my general? i am a decent tactician, but i have always been much better at the strategic, big picture stuff

what, such as going

"Cykur, I want you to kill that fleet over there and raze the planet for me...."

Kinda like when Mr Burns tells Darryl Strawberry to hit a home run

BURNS: "You! Strawberry! Hit a home run!"
DARRYL STRAWBERRY: "Okay!"
BURNS: "Ha! I told him to do that!"
SMITHERS: "Brilliant strategy, sir."

yes, exactly

You probably won't be able to afford him!!!