Please, let's admit the fact that....

The planet bombandent ability of Advent starbase and anti-structure weapon of Vasari starbase are failure by design.

 

 

Maybe Advent case can be worked as preventing people from claim the planet, but that's half-functioning at best, since no one in bloody hell will claim the planet before destroying the starbase anyway.

 

 

They just can't work properly in current direction of the development.

 

In theory you build those starbases in enemy territory, which is now very slow, time consuming, risky way because now the building speed is extremely slow.

 

Now thinking about the upgrade cost, time and you get the idea.

 

On top of that, Advent base cannot move thus the constructor needs to go close to the planet, asking to be blasted by defense fleet.

 

Get rid of these silly weapons and put some effective weapons like TEC has.

 

At Last, since there is almost zero chance to put dedicated anti-structure cruiser for vasari (b/c time, cost) please make Vasari LRF useful against structure.

4,064 views 15 replies
Reply #1 Top

Agree 100% except for using their lrf for anti structure. I dont think that would go well if you were rushed by lrf that could kill your mil labs real fast.

Reply #2 Top

The Planet blasting ability of the advent base indeed is stupid thing.

If i would be able to build a starbase under my ops nose, i'd also be able to simply glass the planet with 10 purges.

 

Replace the anti planet weapon with a vortex type thing:

 

draw enemys in with it, then stun them. And shower them. and stun them again.

 

Reply #3 Top

Quoting Levelheaded, reply 2
The Planet blasting ability of the advent base indeed is stupid thing.

If i would be able to build a starbase under my ops nose, i'd also be able to simply glass the planet with 10 purges.

 

Replace the anti planet weapon with a vortex type thing:

 

draw enemys in with it, then stun them. And shower them. and stun them again.

 
End of Levelheaded's quote

Ok then I want a Death Ray for TEC.

Reply #4 Top

how long does it take to make a vasari starbase? a couple minutes?

 

considering how long it takes to transport a fleet, i don't think it's that bad.

 

bring in a migrater with a decent sized fleet and most importantly a mine layer ship and you start that puppy up and surround it with mines, then you let your fleet go.

 i think it would work very well, by the time you get your fleet tyheir it's built, and you have a starbase and the fleet to contend with

Reply #5 Top

I think the problem is that once I'm at the point in the game where I can build and defend a starbase on an enemy planet, I usually already have a fleet that can destroy the planet quicker and then move on.  And the regular meteor ability is not bad at all(although it does ned alittle more since it only hits shields...maybe a 10%chance to hit penalty for a minute of so after the strike).  And since the advent starbase can't move, it's usually on the wrong side of the well when it switches to defense. 

The vasari base is fine, simply because it can be repositioned.

Reply #6 Top

It is weak, but i assume it will be fixed asap

Reply #7 Top

Quoting galgameth, reply 4
how long does it take to make a vasari starbase? a couple minutes?

 

considering how long it takes to transport a fleet, i don't think it's that bad.

 

bring in a migrater with a decent sized fleet and most importantly a mine layer ship and you start that puppy up and surround it with mines, then you let your fleet go.

 i think it would work very well, by the time you get your fleet tyheir it's built, and you have a starbase and the fleet to contend with
End of galgameth's quote

 

I have hard time understanding this. For me something is completely nonsensual, yet I just can't point out what's utterly wrong.

Oh wait, I see some serious logic flaw.

Reply #8 Top

Quoting VRaptor117, reply 5
I think the problem is that once I'm at the point in the game where I can build and defend a starbase on an enemy planet, I usually already have a fleet that can destroy the planet quicker and then move on.  And the regular meteor ability is not bad at all(although it does ned alittle more since it only hits shields...maybe a 10%chance to hit penalty for a minute of so after the strike).  And since the advent starbase can't move, it's usually on the wrong side of the well when it switches to defense. 

The vasari base is fine, simply because it can be repositioned.
End of VRaptor117's quote

 

Hmmm they are not fine.

 

 

You need to bring your poor colony ship to enemy grav well.

 

And start building starbase.

 

Then you need to upgrade enough to get the anti-structure damage and some hp boost.

 

 

It takes a lot of bloody time.... so either starbase got destroyed by concentrated fire from any mid to large size of fleet, or become useless if the situation is over.

 

The guy above try to convince that the time fleet takes to move into the enemy territory is longer than all of these processes.

 

Not only that's such a insane idea, but also he ignores that the colony ship and upgrading starbase are completely exposed to enemy fire.

 

Now tell me they are fine.

Reply #9 Top

In the late game, once I have effectively unlimited resources, I have a tendency to put a Vasari starbase around every planet of the races I have Cease Fires with (I never make actual Alliances, as it breaks all of the vision/ceasefire/trade pacts when they fail).  I then give each a phase stabilizer and lots of combat upgrades (2/2 weapon, at least 3/4 health, and 1 rank of Frontal Deflector; the final upgrade is either the fourth health or the debris vortex).  Since I'm not at war with the person I'm building around, there's no risk to the constructor, no need for a fleet to guard it for two minutes.  This policy has several practical effects:

1> Enemy ships can't easily attack me by passing safely through my erstwhile "ally", who also has a cease-fire with my enemy.

2> I keep vision on their planets regardless of whether they agree to a vision pact or not.

3> I can phase-jump through their territory to hit distant enemies.

and most importantly,

4> When the Cease Fire inevitably breaks, I've got a series of massive combat bases parked right in the center of their infrastructure, with phase gates allowing my fleets to jump straight to the systems of their choice.  The starbases will proceed to fight the enemy starbase (if any), followed by clearing out the enemy's defense structures, and finally any commercial ones.

I send in my fleets to help, but take last night's game for instance; I did this to 12 systems on one opponent before the fighting started (and he did one to me, in return, placing a starbase around one of my key planets).  In three of those twelve cases, the enemy would have destroyed the starbase had my fleets not arrived (and in one case, they managed to destroy it even with my fleet there); these three were the systems in which the AI had placed his own fully-upgraded starbases as well. Most of my fleets were busy wiping that foe's battle fleet, which he'd been using to attack a third party at the time.

But in the other NINE cases, my starbase won the battle without any fleet help at all; some of those were where the enemy starbase was outgunned (and massed Kostura Cannon assistance really helped), but most were systems where he'd never built an SB, period.  Hangars and gauss platforms are just no match for a slightly mobile base with 20k hit points and huge guns.  I'll say that again, in most cases the starbase WON.  By the time my fleet arrived at some of these planets, every orbital structure was destroyed and no ships survived.  That's a huge strategic advantage, not just in time saved, but in the risk to my own planets; half of the enemy's ships were pinned down in scattered losing battles against my bases, instead of being sent towards my own systems to raid. One of the systems cleared this way was a chokepoint between his home system and the rest of his empire; that base effectively blocked any reinforcements from helping his other systems, and made conquering easy.  I still had to send fleets in to perform the planetary bombardment, though.

So, in that sort of strategy, an anti-planet starbase weapon would have tremendous utility.  Put it on a starbase near one of your allies, and if the alliance ever fails, the starbase won't just wipe out the orbital structures, it'll wipe the entire planet.  Send in a colony ship and you're done.

Reply #10 Top

Planet bombarding starbase?  I haven't played as Advent since Entrenchment came out, I didn't realize this was the case.  That fails, just fails.  Really... you can bombard a planet of any kind to dust with a handful of bomber ships in about the same time as it would take to build the constructor and build the starbase, but with far less cost and risk.   Crazy.

Reply #11 Top

Planet bombarding starbase? I haven't played as Advent since Entrenchment came out, I didn't realize this was the case. That fails, just fails.
End of quote

Of course what they fail to mention is that it's not a separate upgrade. Researching Meteor Storm for the Starbase unlocks both the "nuke the hell out of the enemy fleet" and "nuke the hell out of the planet" abilities, from one Starbase upgrade. This way, you use it for whatever you want.

This is why a lot of feedback posts fail more than gameplay issues do. :P

Reply #12 Top

Annatar I dont see why that makes a difference. It still does not work.I would not use the advent sb for offense simply because you cant reposition it.Not to mention all the time and effort it would take to accomplish it. I would rather build 2 or 3 more cap ships to bomb the planet faster after I killed defenses.

Reply #13 Top

That's irrelevant. The planet-bombard ability is a freebie/bonus. If you research the Meteor Storm ability to drop 'em on ships, you get the planet one with it. Which means it has both defensive and offensive uses from the same upgrade. Don't want the offensive part? You still get the same defensive for the same resource investment.

The bottom line is people play differently. I don't use PJIs, others do. I use sieges, others don't. But we all have our options. Each starbase likewise has offensive options, whether or not everyone will use them. The TEC can build ships, which is hardly needed on defense since it's cheaper to plop down a 2 frigate factories instead. The Vasari gets a phase node, which can also be replaced. Whether you personally use these or not is up to you, but the important thing is everyone has their options. There's certainly plenty to upgrade :P

Reply #14 Top

Well I would rather have an ability that keeps my planet from being damaged or killed like techs shield.Not much of a bonus ability when it is totally impractical to gameplay. Maybe you have a point that people play differently but this is beta and we are spose to point out things like this. I personally have not read anyposts on how this is good or beneficial to the advent.

Reply #15 Top

Annatar, we must also remember that with the current starbase upgrade scheme, you'd have to build the base, then research the meteor upgrade at an additional cost and 50 seconds. And then, only if you're neglecting structure upgrades, which leaves the base rather vulnerable. And due to the... rather large antimatter cost of the meteor abilities, you probably wouldn't be able to use both of them, thus even less defense against a fleet.

Basically, I think the complaint, and I sort of agree with it, is that the effort required to follow the very difficult and exacting path that would allow you to assult a planet with such an ability is far out of proportion to the benefit, especially if the benefit can be obtained much more easily another way. It's just an attack, whereas phase nodes or ship factories are something you couldn't at all have in an enemy grav well.

Your point that it is available if a player so desires is certainly valid, but... I think advent players like myself are looking for something a bit more flavorful. I mean, it's a lot of damage, but I can do a lot of damage with fleets too.