Major Gameplay/Realism/Balance problems identified so far, and their Status's.

from Sins Forums

LEGEND:

>>> denotes a problem.

- denotes a suggestion.

(....) denotes important information within the text.

* Denotes a suggestion that has been discussed and OFFICIALLY rejected.

STATUS denotes the status of a problem.

Problems and their relevant suggestions are arranged in order of importance.

 

 


>>>Torpedo Frigates are seriously overpowered against starbases, and something than can obliterate a heavy installation such as a starbase should be able to do more than scratch the paint on an mere ship.

 

STATUS: Identified, some suggestions being reviewed. (Mods say they are planning to deal with it; https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/338311, post #7)

 

Further suggestions:

-Add CIWS (Probably impossible, or impossible with Sins Engine)

-Reduce the damage, preferably 50%, against starbases, to something like 300-350. Make them have a lower rate of fire, but give them a decent range and let them do 50-75% (I'm just throwing 'educated' guesses) damage against capships, and ~50% damage to cruisers and frigates. And, like double their cost. Also make them the slowest things in a gravity well.

Why? Torpedo Frigates should be viable support in fleet battle, like a heavier version of LRFs, but more expensive and slower, and less armored.

-Decrease their vunerability to fighters, by ~15%. It should take bombers to bring them down in time.

-Decrease their resistance to starbase weapons. There shouldn't be a magic shield just because the laser bursts were fired from a starbase, instead of a fighter or another ship.

-Siege Frigates should be able to deal nearly double damage to starbases, and withstand their fire as well as a cruiser (just my 2 cents) as they are very weak and nearly useless, as it is.

 


>>>Starbases are useless when the situation changes! (except, to some extent, Vasari) As if you built a mighty fortress near one phase lane junction, then conquered the world down the line, you should be able to re-purpose the station as a economic or administrative node, or move it to another phase lane junction.

 

STATUS: Unknown

 

Suggestions:

 

-Allow each 'addon' to a starbase to be individually removed (and refunded, like scuttling). This process could be lengthier than simply scuttling the station as a penalty, and could refund less resources or even cost a small amount.

-Add new Research allowing a Basic Construction Frigate to remove an 'module' from a Starbase.

-Allow the starbases to move* (this is very controversial, and I and some others believe it would severely undercut the Vasari's uniqueness)

-Add a frigate or cruiser, with fairly high price, non-existent shields, paper-thin hull, with the ability to tractor and move buildings. Starbases would be moved extremely slowly and could take multiple 'tow-ships'. Additionally, tractor beams could damage the objects they are towing by a small percentage/per sec, like 1 or 1.5% per sec per beam, and like physics, more beams = faster movement.

-Add new research, to allow the Basic Construction Frigate to gain a tractor-beam ability, and move buildings around slowly, perhaps require multiple BCFs to move a starbase. Same beam damage and physics system as described above

 


>>>Starbases are underpowered in some ways. Some argue that the mere presence of a imposing fortress should boost culture resistance (or cultural advance) by its existence, and boost faith in the safety of the economy and safety of interstellar trade , and thus increase trade and mining, without upgrades.

 

STATUS: Unknown whether enough people complain/care to make it a problem.

 

Suggestions:

-Give all starbases a minor cultural, economic, and mining boost without upgrades. Upgrades increase this effect significantly (e.g. a trade upgrade should be at least half a new trade port)


>>> The mine clearing system and mine-laying systems are not very well tuned/balanced

 

STATUS: Unknown, unknown whether enough people care enough, but can be easily solved

 

Suggestions:

-Give flak frigates 2 settings, to be manually selected. Anti-fighter (screens against fighters & bombers and prioritizes them, going after them unless nearby mines) and Mine-Clearing (prioritizes mines, and will ignore even fighters & bombers attacking them, and attacking mines)

This allows you to use a vanguard of flak's and a few scouts to clear mines for your main fleet, and reduces micromanagement load, which is always a good idea in a game the size of Sins.

 

Thats it so far. If there are more problems I will add them here.

3,702 views 7 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top




>>>Starbases are useless when the situation changes! (except, to some extent, Vasari) As if you built a mighty fortress near one phase lane junction, then conquered the world down the line, you should be able to re-purpose the station as a economic or administrative node, or move it to another phase lane junction.

 

STATUS: Unknown

 

Suggestions:

 

-Allow each 'addon' to a starbase to be individually removed (and refunded, like scuttling). This process could be lengthier than simply scuttling the station as a penalty, and could refund less resources or even cost a small amount.

-Add new Research allowing a Basic Construction Frigate to remove an 'module' from a Starbase.

-Allow the starbases to move* (this is very controversial, and I and some others believe it would severely undercut the Vasari's uniqueness)

-Add a frigate or cruiser, with fairly high price, non-existent shields, paper-thin hull, with the ability to tractor and move buildings. Starbases would be moved extremely slowly and could take multiple 'tow-ships'. Additionally, tractor beams could damage the objects they are towing by a small percentage/per sec, like 1 or 1.5% per sec per beam, and like physics, more beams = faster movement.

-Add new research, to allow the Basic Construction Frigate to gain a tractor-beam ability, and move buildings around slowly, perhaps require multiple BCFs to move a starbase. Same beam damage and physics system as described above

 





>>>Starbases are underpowered in some ways. Some argue that the mere presence of a imposing fortress should boost culture resistance (or cultural advance) by its existence, and boost faith in the safety of the economy and safety of interstellar trade , and thus increase trade and mining, without upgrades.
 

STATUS: Unknown whether enough people complain/care to make it a problem.

 
Suggestions:

-Give all starbases a minor cultural, economic, and mining boost without upgrades. Upgrades increase this effect significantly (e.g. a trade upgrade should be at least half a new trade port)

End of quote

Darn, i just made a post about that. Sorry. v_v

I think eco and mining boost is to much, but culture repell, like a cap ship, should be included.

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

It seems to me that one of the problems we have all detected with regards to the detection of mines (that scouts stop just before in range, because they use their ability before they can fire their weapons) is very reminiscent to issues with special abilities that plague the rest of the game. It is the problem of autocasting and the incapacity of a AI-micromanaged fleet that cannot decipher between the time when it 'can' us an ability and when it 'should'. There are many instances of this, and perhaps no easy fix, but I see it as a rather significant flaw remaining in this admittedly fairly solid game.

One instance is the advent starbase's special active abilities. The meteor swarm, along with the disruption cloud both are used (keep in mind the significance of their expens, and high-cooldown time) upon the FIRST SIGHT of any one ship approaching the starbase, even if 200 ships lie just beyond and obviously following right on the heels of the vanguard. This seems an absurd waste, and forces the micromanagement of these otherwise spectacularly-crafted abilities.

Another instance is the advent's carrier cap ship, whose anti-fighter 'push' ability has the capacity to REALLY make a solid capital ship out of this, that really exercises its rightful place owning the 'skies'. Unfortunately, this also suffers from the same problem of unintelligent timing of autocasting that I have already mentioned.

 

I could go through a whole series of other abilities, but the basic message should be clear. The AI is not, in essence, COMPLETE. If it cannot tell the difference between significances as obvious as the '1ship vs. 100 ships behind the 1ship', it really cannot be called artificial intelligence -- more appropriate to call it artificial idiotiocy.

I want to stress that, despite my harsh tone (how many patches has this been left through?), I REALLY have enjoyed this game and it definitely has the most challenging (without being too much 'cheating' like other strat games) AI. However, it really needs some work in this area, as well as certain others, to justly be regarded as a formidable opponent.

On this note, and since I am typing, I thought I would put two more cents in regarding the AI from a more strategic point of view. From a most recent game that I played I pitted myself up against 5 unfairs and 1 hard in a locked FFA. Here is where I found the AI really struggles. I does not seem capable of prioritizing and fully 'dealing with' opponents. Example: of the two bordering empires that I was directly pitted against, each could not commit to a full-fledged invasion of either me or their neighbours, thereby limiting their capacity to effectively assert their power on the grand strategic scale. They also don't seem to understand the prospect of making enemeies suffer a 'Pyrric victory'. Rather than stick around the system they are invading and wipe out my expensive starbase (which they could, if they prioritized fire on it), they turn tail and try and run... regardless of phase-jump inhibitor. This is absurd. Leveling capital-ships has never been so easy since the advent have both the starbase disruption-cloud along with the meteor swarm and a good ole' phase-jump inhibitor. The AI shouldn't be so futile in its attacks. They should KNOW that they would suffer less tremendous losses if only they would sustain some losses IN COMBAT against the starbase rather than in foolish flight.

Also, what is up with the AI, even late in the game when they have enough resources to fling like old-Regime European kings against my fully-defended bases, not doing basic research into planetary discovery? This last game, only a 27-planneter, by the fifth hour they still had not found 3 ARTIFACTS which I did after stealing away their poorly-defended planets (this is another note coming). On the same note of AI seemingly ill-scripted behaviour.. by late in the game only 3 other factions remained against me, but those who had wiped out the other factions refused, for some reason, to take certain planets which were basically undefended (pile of mines and a couple of frig factories kinda thing). After playing against them for 1 hour like this I just couldn't help but include this in my criticisms... I mean this is just inexusably STUPID AI.

 

FINALLY, it seems as though they don't fully appreciate the proper mixing of defence-structures. Now, surely this is to a large degree a 'human' factor in deeper-comprehension ... I mean we all know that just a pile of turrets is not nearly as effective as support with repair bays and hangars... seems though that AI take pride in arrogantly refusing to adopt the repair platforms, or at least only employ them ineffectively. I would love to drop into a star-system one of these games that is adequately defended from the ONE phase lane that COULD be attacking it... a fully upgraded starbase whose abilities function with some basic logic, a supporting fleet willing to take losses even after losing that one cap ship in order for 'the greater good', and some well-deployed and logically-grounded defences supporting the starbase, including more than just 1 or 2 repair platforms... This is what I would expect from the LEAST of the humans I would play against that I would call 'unfair' opponents, and this is what I would like to expect from the much-vaunted Stardock-AI.

Oh yes, and there is a reason that Stardock is 'much-vaunted' -- you all rock. Thanks for the forum for my anti-AI rage issues to be vented in. Maybe in the subsequent weeks I will be able to play a good game of strategic space-war against what Steven Colbert would call a 'formidable opponent.'

Thanks again, and for anyone who responds, I appreciate input -- I suppose I could be wrong on some of these points!  *_* .

 

Pax.

Galactic Civilizations IV
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

>>>Starbases are useless when the situation changes! (except, to some extent, Vasari) As if you built a mighty fortress near one phase lane junction, then conquered the world down the line, you should be able to re-purpose the station as a economic or administrative node, or move it to another phase lane junction.
End of quote

I can't in good conscience agree with this at all. You don't build up a mighty fortress and max out the upgrades if you know you're going to conquer the next planet over in the next 10 minutes. You have to think ahead and place and upgrade your starbases appropriately. A maxed out Starbase is great for holding the line on your flank, but useless on the always-changing front line.

IC has always said they wanted players to make hard choices with starbases, and being able to change them around on a whim doesn't suit that idea.

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

not on a whim, you can take a penalty (paying a cost to reclaim slots)...

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

It's still on a whim, since you can do it whenever you want :P

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Annatar11, reply 3

>>>Starbases are useless when the situation changes! (except, to some extent, Vasari) As if you built a mighty fortress near one phase lane junction, then conquered the world down the line, you should be able to re-purpose the station as a economic or administrative node, or move it to another phase lane junction.
I can't in good conscience agree with this at all. You don't build up a mighty fortress and max out the upgrades if you know you're going to conquer the next planet over in the next 10 minutes. You have to think ahead and place and upgrade your starbases appropriately. A maxed out Starbase is great for holding the line on your flank, but useless on the always-changing front line.

IC has always said they wanted players to make hard choices with starbases, and being able to change them around on a whim doesn't suit that idea.
End of Annatar11's quote

Agreed

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

If it takes a few minutes...

 

If you get Surprise attacked while building/towing

 

etc etc