Agent of Kharma Agent of Kharma

Flak frigs: do they suck or what?

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Flak frigs: do they suck or what?

from Sins Forums

Do flak frigs suck?  Are they essentially broken?  I've tried to use them many times.  They just don't seem to counter strikecraft for some reason, even if built in huge numbers.  In addition to just plain not doing much against strikecraft, there are other problems.  For instance, the buggers seem to take FOREVER to turn out the numbers required, even using multiple frig factories from multiple systems (that's not a scientific observation, it just "seems" that way).

Who builds these things?  Can anyone convince me that these things don't suck?  If they don't suck, what is the proper way to use them, the proper numbers to deploy, etc (I've deployed tons, but to little effect)?  If they do suck, what is the solution?

I'm not complaining or bitching.  I'm not saying the game is screwed.  And if touching the unit means risking strangely balancing the game in other ways (obsoleting fighters, for instance), I'd probably just rather leave well enough alone.  But it's like, I see a unit in the game called a "flak frig," but when I build them they don't do crap.  Something just seems wrong with that.

If you are a newb (THIS IS NOT AN INSULT), don't respond with your opinion (unless you just want to, heh).  I know you are only trying to help, but your experience either against the AI, or against other newbs, doesn't count for much.  I'd like to hear from knowledgeable players and pros.  Does this unit suck?  What's the solution?

Not one to just complain about something without at least attempting a solution, here's an idea I came up with:  I'm going on the assumption here that the current problem conceptually for the devs is that fighters also counter strikecraft, so buffing flak frigs too much means obsoleting fighters.  Perhaps their roles overlap too much?  SOLUTION - split their roles.  Turn flak frigs into more of a "stationary" defense, intended to be parked near structures or a stationary fleet.  This would mean a nerf to their speed/mobility.  But a buff to their attack capability.  This way, flak frigs would be good for "stationary" anti-strikecraft duty, covering a limited area (but covering it well) and carriers with fighters could be used for "mobile" anti-strikecraft duty.  Also, fighters would still be able to cover the entire grav well, as they do now, where as the ponderous, slow moving flak frigs would cover a limited area.  To emphasize this, perhaps the flak frigs would even roll off the assembly line automatically set to "hold position."  It could even be that these changes are made in Entrenchment, since the role seems to involve defense.

Comments?  Suggestions?  Criticisms?

30,279 views 35 replies
Reply #26 from Sins Forums Top

A little mico managing helps, but I'm a KOL spammer as Tec so Flak frigates usually just take out what's left (And it isn't much after 4 flak bursts).  But I still have to set them spacifically to a control group and "Hold Position."   If you order them to hold position, they can usually make good cover for Ogrovs against newer starbases before the max upgrades are made.  But, don't matter how many flak frigates you got, when you play an actual person who knows how to prioritize targets correctly, your Flaks will just be covering a field of Debris once a full capacity fighter upgrade is reached.

Reply #27 from Sins Forums Top

My searches on the web found A-10 kills for helicopters, and aircraft on the ground, but no air-to-air kills. so the "hog" isn't applicable as a fighter in this discussion, it would be more along the lines of the bombers that are blowing the bejeezus out of our cap ships.
End of quote

Oh, you were talking about fighters . . . I thought you were talking about guns on aircraft in general.

 

Offworld Trading Company
Reply #28 from Sins Forums Top

Even if Ironclad gives Caps some kind of Flak and Flak Frigates get buffed, it all means nothing until Carrier's can't replace their strike craft instantly as soon as they lose them. 

The light carrier needs to be nerfed in order for ANY Flak increase to make sense. It would just be putting a bandage on a rotting wound. 

Reply #29 from Sins Forums Top

Hate the Light Carrier, (root for the capital carrier they need some love) not the Strike Craft. 

A 10 or 15% buff to overall Flak is not unreasonable. Giving a weak Flak to all general Capital Ships (equalivant to 1-2 Flak Frigates Firepower) is also not unreasonable and also realistic. The Mothership type Capital Ship could be a moderate Flak capability (equal to about 3-4 FFrigates).

Come on IronClad! 

Reply #31 from Sins Forums Top

Why give carriers antimatter if they can't use it in combat, where it's most needed? You may as well remove it and give them only their starting squadrons. Problem is, those things die out so fast, the carriers will be lucky to unload more than a few volleys.

If strike craft can't be rebuilt under fire, then every flak frigate does a direct subtraction to carrier DPS. That will ruin carriers.

Reply #32 from Sins Forums Top

I don't really use them because they are waste of needed space in my fleet, and I have rarely come to use them, I don't mind heavy but they take up more

Reply #33 from Sins Forums Top

Agent of Karma did some testing it turns out...

The only thing you can beat with a Flak Frigate is a scout ship. x_x  

Reply #34 from Sins Forums Top

HEHEHHE so true, you could kill some buildigns but it takes a long time :(

Reply #35 from Stardock Forums Top

meh i find that the advent defense vessal works just fine... i usually have 30-40 in my fleet with all formations tight

with that most of any squad that flies to close to my ships get knocked down pretty quickly...well thats after the defense vessals recive the cooldown buff from my halycons and the SCs get debuffed by the fifth cap with the weird name

oh question: are you refering to just the tec flak friget or anti-sc frigets in general