Small Changes?

Anti Structure Cruisers, starbases and Mine spotting. New Strike Aircraft.

Been playing Beta 2.5 for a while, and it's good fun, but I think there's just a little balance issues, though nothing major.  Maybe I only think they're balance issues but I'd rather just put em out there and have them shot down than wonder if I should have.

 

*Anti Structure Cruisers.  Oddly not a complaint about their power versus structures, but I think they're far too effective against other vesseles.  They can do massive damage to other ships, and that really doesn't seem logical to me.  I don't think they're damage should be lowered, but is there anything else that could happen, like having a high miss chance against Enemy ships?

 

*Starbases.  Starbases are cool, just gonna say that right now.  But I think they have some severe lackings.  Mostly the Auxilary government feature is pretty useless I think, unless there's something I'm missing about it.  I'd like to see either more stages, or the initial stage have things like Culture Repel rate, Population Increase, Tax boost, ect to make establishing starbases around planets for administrative purposes more viable.  Secondly They seem just a tad weak defensively.  No Starbase should be able to stand alone against a dedicated fleet assault, but the small starbases before all the upgrades can be wrecked by even a dozen or so light Frigates. 

 

*Mine Spotting.  This should be given to other vessels besides the Scouts, as way of a high level Upgrade.  I'm thinking the Utility Capital Ships.  Or, if the world is so hell bent on keeping the Scouts useful in fleet assaults, increase the punishingly small range.

 

*New Strike Aircraft.  I'd like to see a new type of strike aircraft added to all factions, this new strike aircraft should be ECM craft that enhance slightly per squadron the friendly forces defenses. Or lowering enemies chance to hit (like in an asteroid field).  I just think that would add some nice utility instead of the normal fighter-bomber swarmfest.

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Reply #1 Top

*Anti Structure Cruisers.  Oddly not a complaint about their power versus structures, but I think they're far too effective against other vesseles.  They can do massive damage to other ships, and that really doesn't seem logical to me.  I don't think they're damage should be lowered, but is there anything else that could happen, like having a high miss chance against Enemy ships?
End of quote

 

unless you found a new bug i can't confirm for beta 2.5 neither the tec torpedo cruiser nor the advent adjudicator do any damage to ships.

try 20 ogrovs or 20 adjudicators firing upon 1 ship, it looks fancy like massive damage but in fact doesn't do shit against even the smallest frigate ;)

Reply #2 Top

I agree with the idea of changing the combat relationship between anti-structure cruisers and ships.. though I disagree with how it has been tackled by IC. I think it only makes logical sense that the destructiveness of these massive weapons be preserved, even against ships (why would said weapon do 1% the damage to a small frigate that it does to a massive, fortified SB? does this make sense to anyone out there?). What SHOULD be done instead is that against ships these lumbering anti-structure cruisers should fire at like a 5-10% chance to hit -- specifics of percent chance to be worked out by balancing. Realistically, the only advantage a ship has over a strucutre is maneuverability (one thing strangely missing from the Sins game experience.. fixed battles are somewhat odd from a tactical perspective).

With regards to starbases, I would advise posting on the Starbases 2.5 thread, which may have already suggested much of what you are looking for.

Agree with the range increase for scouts, along with maybe some kind of 'detonate mine field' ability/gun', but not with the notion of extending the ability. I like what the developers are trying to do with rehabilitating the role of scouts on the battlefield, it makes sense and makes for a more interesting assault experience -- though presently needs to be refined not to be a frustrating necessity.

New strike aircraft... meh. I don't think it can/should be included in this expansion, and am uncertain of whether I would want it anyways-- complexity for complexity's sake is perhaps best avoided.

Reply #3 Top

Agree that scouts are pretty useless clearing mines during battles. The player using mines can just effortlessly wipe them out with a single pass of fighters.

Capital ships should have mine sensors. Perhaps with tech research.

Reply #4 Top

Quoting the_only_normal_1, reply 2
I think it only makes logical sense that the destructiveness of these massive weapons be preserved, even against ships (why would said weapon do 1% the damage to a small frigate that it does to a massive, fortified SB?
End of the_only_normal_1's quote

Because these are giant, nearly unguided torpedoes that can only easily hit stationary targets.  Anything mobile just gets out of the way.  Would you prefer them to code it that 99% of the time the torpedo misses the frigate, and 1% it hits and does full damage?  That might make more sense, but it'd suck for gameplay, especially considering how shield mitigation works.

 

As for the scouts, I've said something like that before.  IMO they should add six new techs to each race:

1> Gives the scouts' minespotting ability to a specialty cruiser.  For Vasari, the Overseer is the obvious choice.  (Tier 8 tech, 1 rank)

2> Gives the scouts' minespotting ability to all capships.  With crews of thousands, you can spare one or two to watch for mines...  (Tier 6 tech, 1 rank)  Alternate version, if possible, is that the capships could attack phased mines as if they were unphased, but the mine remains phased out (so other ships in the fleet can't help).

3> Increase the range of the scouts' minespotting by 50%/100%/200%.  This only applies to the actual scouts, not to #1 or #2, so that you still have a reason to prefer them.  (Tier 3 tech, 3 ranks)  Sure, the capships can spot for their own secondaries, but you still need someone to protect your heavy cruisers; tripling the scout's detection radius allows a few of them to keep a bubble around an entire fleet.

4> Decrease the resource cost of minefields by 20/40%.  (Tier 4 tech, 2 ranks)  Alternately, simply increase the number of mines laid down in a single deployment by +1/+2, so that instead of a Ruiner laying six mines, you're placing seven or eight at once; not quite as cost-saving, but it also saves on deployment time.

5> Improve existing mines offensively... the method would vary by race.  Vasari would get a tech that upgrades mine damage, Advent get one that increases the range of the homing mine, and TEC would upgrade the blast radius.  (Tier 5 tech, 2 ranks)

6> Improve existing mines defensively... the method would vary by race.  Vasari mines would continue to blink in and out of phase, making them partially invulnerable even after detection (similar ability to the scout's phasing upgrade); TEC mines would gain extra armor, Advent mines would gain (HP?  Speed?  Reaction time?  not sure).  (Tier 7 tech, 2 ranks)

The first three make it much easier for your fleets to see mines, the last three make the mines more cost-effective or durable.  The problem with the current implementation, in my opinion, is that mines are just too specialized; only scouts can see them, but once seen they're practically harmless.  Improving things in both directions would be good; make them more integrated, so that they're more common and less game-defining.

Reply #5 Top

I would not need to suck for gameplay at all, it would end up being more tactically realistic. Also, if you made it a really small chance to hit (I believe I suggested 5-10% rather than the slightly absurd 1% -- and who are either of us to say what is a 'realistic' chance to hit between those two options... this is a video game in a ficticious world, and they are rather large looking projectiles!) you could have the added recuperative bonus of a small area of affect damage dealt to nearby ships/structures that would make them not TOTALLY irrelevant in battles. These are massive, expensive, and vulnerable fixed-target vessels that should not LOGICALLY be any more irrelevant than artillery was during the 19th century. Sure they may, and should, specialize against fixed fortifications, but there is no need to make them absurdly useless just because of some preconceived notion of 'rock-paper-scissors' tactics.

Reply #6 Top

The Solanus targets six enemies at once. They'd get very powerful very fast.

 

:fox:

Reply #7 Top

I'd like to see mines invisible unless you have a scout in your fleet... it really makes you have to THINK before attacking (pardon the pun at the beginning)

Reply #8 Top

Solanus could be balanced easily enough. just make its chance to hit lower, area-of-effect 1/6 the dmg of the torp, etc.