Agent of Kharma Agent of Kharma

Unit nerfs - BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR

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Unit nerfs - BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR

from Sins Forums

I've seen so many complaints about carriers and strikecraft lately, I am putting this reply of mine in its own thread.  Please note that I do not necessarily "like" carrier spam/strikecraft spam any more than anyone else does, but it isn't an issue of what I like, it's an issue of "picking your poison" so to speak.

If I have to choose which spam to live with in the game, I choose carrier spam.  At least that way you actually SEE other unit types (lrf) on the way to carrier spam (the spammer generally "techs through" to get carriers, and needs something in the meantime until carriers can be produced).  If we go back to lrf spam, lrf is the only unit you will see.  Nothing else, no other unit.

BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR IN UNIT NERFS.  The PJI was nerfed into oblivion coming out of beta.  It took a couple of patches before it was put back to anything approaching "usable," and I have still only seen it used ONCE in an online game (and that was an Entrenchment game, with a starbase to protect it).  I haven't seen returning armada used since its nerf.  EVER.  Siege frigs were nerfed, and while I actually applauded that nerf (for once), there are many who say it was an over-nerf, and they are probably right (think about it - who uses siege frigs?).  Flak frigs were nerfed... did this create a problem for any of you?

If carriers are nerfed, it will be an over-nerf, and we will have one more useless unit for the game.  Fix the flak frig.  That's all that needs to be done.

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28,336 views 37 replies
Reply #26 from Sins Forums Top

For this reason, spamming only fighters will not let you win a battle in most situations as you get air superiority and then have to take out the enemy carriers with fighters - it doesn't work. You need a balanced fleet. HCs are a great counter for carrier spam. Yes you have to tech up to it, but it IS effective.
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Would it be better to think about moving the LC up the tech tree instead? Perhaps in between command and HC? The command cruiser would augment a balanced fleet first. After that I don't know what order it should be, carrier then HC or HC then carrier. The carrier has been one of the more recent developments in the navy that obsoleted the battleship. Just a thought I've been toying with. I think it's a better idea than a nerf of the carrier.

Reply #27 from Sins Forums Top

geezes, my solution fixes this PERFECTLY!

like come on, in not a stupid idiot giving suggestions that are as careless as breathing.

 

oh, the link since the damned code writing pidgeon shits arent working https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/340413

if its not fixed in 1 hour, im reposting the whole damn thing.

TouchTasks - Access tasks with ease on Windows touchscreens.
Reply #28 from Sins Forums Top

the new beta slowed strike craft production in enemy wells, has anyone seen if this makes a difference?

Reply #29 from Stardock Forums Top

um again i note that for advent at least the illumies are tier 3 while carriers are tier 2 so...

Reply #30 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting raven27679, reply 3
the new beta slowed strike craft production in enemy wells, has anyone seen if this makes a difference?
End of raven27679's quote

Going to test this tonight. I hope it makes a difference. 

IMHO it should at the bear minimum take 40-50 secs to replace a dead strike craft, otherwise it's just putting a bandage on a rotting problem. Also the beta changes didn't note any Anti-matter cost change at all so still essentially people can replace SC with impunity. 

Reply #31 from Sins Forums Top

Also the beta changes didn't note any Anti-matter cost change at all so still essentially people can replace SC with impunity.
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I have yet to test it fully, but it actually (on paper, anyway) looks like a fairly significant nerf, even without the antimatter adjustment you want.  That's because the longer it takes to rebuild strikecraft for a carrier, the less significant the amount of antimatter it has in reserve.  To prove this to yourself mathematically, just extrapolate the time to replace strikecraft out to infinity.  At infinite time to replace strikecraft, no strikecraft ever get replaced, no matter what the antimatter reserve is.

I believe the nerf to strikecraft rebuild time was 75%.  Now, I don't know how long it used to take (before the nerf).  But unless we're talking 75% of a 1 second rebuild (which would then make it close to 2 seconds - LOL), it sounds like a pretty hefty penalty, in theory anyway.

Reply #32 from Sins Forums Top

The penalty is 25% while under attack, and another 25% if a hostile unit is in the same grav well. So the penalties can happen even at your own home world, not just hostile grav wells. It's a small difference, but it means quite a bit.

Reply #33 from Sins Forums Top

The penalty is 25% while under attack, and another 25% if a hostile unit is in the same grav well. So the penalties can happen even at your own home world, not just hostile grav wells. It's a small difference, but it means quite a bit.
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So running scouts through a system will slow down how quick they can replace SC while I still next door and build mine up to 100%???

Reply #34 from Sins Forums Top

If they don't do the same, yes. But the change shouldn't be... that apparent, let's say. I don't think using a scout in that manner will really change the outcome of anything, as the jump time from planet to planet would probably make up for it anyway.

Reply #35 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting CreditSuisse, reply 1


Instantly replacable and free Strike Craft, high shielded/hull points Carriers (even more than a Kodiak btw)
End of CreditSuisse's quote

True carriers have more shield and hull... But they are not tougher... Kodies have more armor if i'm not misunderstanding.

Grtz,
[_]-Flipkik

Reply #36 from Sins Forums Top

And guns. Kodiaks have guns. And heavy armor that is resistant to fighters!!!

Reply #37 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Hack78, reply 18

All popular science fiction has big ships with AA guns. Battlestar Galactic, Star Wars, etc.


We count thirty Rebel ships, Lord Vader, but they're so small they're evading our turbolasers."

We'll have to destroy them ship to ship. Get the crews to their fighters.

First and foremost - there is a general issue with this thread. People are using the term strike craft when they need to distinguish between fighters and bombers. You will need a lot of fighters to take down a cap. Bombers will do it with 1/2 the number. But if you have a number of fighters in your fleet, they will kill the bombers. So caps are not in immediately danger from fighters and only from bombers if your fighters don't intercept them in time...

For this reason, spamming only fighters will not let you win a battle in most situations as you get air superiority and then have to take out the enemy carriers with fighters - it doesn't work. You need a balanced fleet. HCs are a great counter for carrier spam. Yes you have to tech up to it, but it IS effective.

Another issue is that people also aren't microing their caps to kill the strike craft properly... Hence the complaints about the strike craft being too powerful.
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I'm all with you man