Unit nerfs - BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR

Sorry man,

Instantly replacable and free Strike Craft, high shielded/hull points Carriers (even more than a Kodiak btw) and the ability to jump out at anytime due to unlimited range is ruining this game.

No one is nerfing the strike craft, themselves. Carrier's should cost antimatter or resources to replace Strike Craft, and we all know Capital Ships deserve som Flak and Flak in general needs to be buffed.

I'm sorry you just don't see any of that.  

meh I am on the fence if you using flak ships in your attaking fleet  I dont see the problem and scouts dont do much dam but they are fast bought the only ship I dont use is the planet bombers I leave it for the captal ships

This is stupid. But mostly because the majority of "nerf" ideas don't even address the percieved problem with carriers. Nerfing carriers won't fix the problem, and buffing flaks won't fix the problem. In a heads up fight, flaks will counter carriers any day of the week, and that's fine the way it is. Most players don't even build enough flak to count as a worthy carrier counter, and are clamoring for sweeping changes regardless.

The problem is that carriers don't HAVE to give flaks the time of day to be countered. "Hey guys, boom boom boom, cya in 2." The end.

Carriers should not be able to build/rebuild SC in battle.

That way a modest defence will eventually whittle their numbers (and damage dealt) down, and carriers will have to retreat in order to rebuild SC. On the other hand, no anti-SC defence and the defender will still get maimed.

Now no unit needs to be buffed or nerfed.

Just my opinion.

whats that say if you cant take the heat nah Ill be nice

I'm on the fence on this also.

On the 1 hand I'm all for customisability, which Sins is really good with allready. You can play offencivelly or deffencive and in SP you can choose whether your opponants play offencive or deffencive, Pirates or no pirates etc. Perhaps having on option where you could change the strength or damage output of SC or flak would make every one happy. This could be a bit of a problem with MP though, people would have to make sure they have the same options, possibly limiting the amount of available people with same settings. If you play SP you may be able to alter things like this to suit your own personally liking now with forge tools.

On the other hand, everybody has the same, or at least very similar tools available to them. If you don't like carriers because they keep wooping your ass, then your probably not going about countering them properly. As mentioned above build more flak frigates, hangers and the like, and make sure you got some capitals with anti fighter abilities. If you don't like carriers because you don't like carriers, or you don't like there being so many of them well Boo Hoo! thats like saying I don't like pawns in chess there's to many of them. Its the way the game is use what you've got.

Personally, if carriers do end up getting nerfed I won't be cracking the sads. I'll still love Sins, I'll just adapt. If they don't, well I already love Sins the way it is.

All people want is to counter carriers without spamming their own carrier spam. 

Strike Craft ruin this game by weakening Capital Ships survivalibility, useless Flak Frigates, and useless planetary defenses. (No to mention useless Starbases in the expansion)

Strike Craft counter ALL, and is no countered by anything - except other Strike Craft in equal or better numbers. duhh, double duhh. Also how do Carriers have more shields and hp than the Kodiak Heavy Crusiers which is a close up melee-unit. duhhh. 

The pure effectiveness of Carrier Strike Craft means the best way to play is : scout > expand > hard tech to Light Carriers > spam spam spam. Don't even get any caps they waste logistics points > spam spam spam > spam more for the spammy spam win bitches! 

I dont want to sound obvious, or like an idiot, but why are we asking for dev intervention to nerf or add to strikecraft, or carriers, or flaks or their counters?  Why dont we simply do a mod? Change the settings, up or down. Adjust the carriers, the strikecraft, the flaks, etc...?

This leaves the game intact as is, for those not wanting the nerfs, or the adjustments, or the increases in one that offset the other so someone is disappointed or upset?

I have modded the game from the first week i had the game, now 6 months ago, and i had no idea what to do. Now i modify anything, everything. For the fun of it, to test it, to cheat a little bit, or bored of that to make it harder, or for any of a dozen dozen other reasons.

What might be nice from the devs, is a editor, like the one we have now, only more comprehensive, broader, do more things, maybe something like a GalaxyForge/ParticleForge/Editor with some more details thrown in, so we can adjust the settings for anything from ships to planets, to how many spawn on a planet, to how many we can have tops, so we get an adjustable customizable game, and if we are online, well, then simply have each player set their settings the same and then have them locked when the game starts.

Just my opinion of course, but i hate to see things nerfed because part of the community plays a certain way and thinks its absolutely necessary, while the other side has to either deal with it, or make their own opinons heard to turn the tide back the other way. A mod, or an editor could and should address this, and then everyone can have their cake and eat it too.  

Just my two cents, flames cost more, 

-Teal

Teal, with that logic Ironclad should have released the game. left it in the 1.0 unpatched state and told anyone who complained of the game's blatant unbalance on release to go mod it themselves and stop bitching. 

So we're now in patch 1.13 because Ironclad cares about the Multiplayer community, and btw since you admitted you don't play multiplayer did I mention you have absolutely ZERO perspective and your opinion is essentially worthless?

and oh yeah in the meantime can you stop with the immature smilies in ALL your posts like an young boy? Thanks. 

You know what comes to my mind when you say flack? Did anyone ever see a spaceship fight on Battle Star Galatica?There is basically a shield of bullets around the battlestar, and if a fighter or anything really goes in that wall of led it dies real hardcore.

What do you guys think about flack range being much shorter, say only a little more than the fighter/bomber range, so maybee a few could get shots off, but if the fighters are dumb enough to go in they die, fast. Then change the figher/bomber AI avoid this new death area, or make it an option to incase you want a them to die trying.

It could create a new fleet dynamic of keeping ships in tight formation to give cover from strike craft. Or if you give the wall of led ability to caps only, you just made them much more valuable. They could keep the fleet safe from fighters.

Also, you could make it free to replace fighters/bombers, BUT having fighers/bombers out of the ship drains the ships antimatter and the fighters/bombers need to return when its out.

Raven

Ouch, thats was a bit on the very rought side. 

We are in patch 1.13 b/c Ironclad cares about EVERYONE. Not just you high strung multiplayer assholes. His opinion is about as worthless as yours. Since you dont have the understanding to know Teal was just presenting another soulution for the problem. AND after all the MP community is a tiny fraction of the whole SINS community. It just might be best you make a mod for your God-complex group. Its better than having everone agrue on these fourms. Since Im here, why dont you take that stick out of your ass. Thanks.

Well I don't think I should have to be saying this, but some etiquette please!!

Having a difference of opinion is one thing, personal insults are another. You my friend are the one who is immature.

These are all good ideas bt they need polish.  Insted of giveing the flak wall to capatal ships give them some anti strike craft wepons like the flak friggates.  This is much eazyer to mod than the flak walls and new strikecraft AI. 

I think haveing strike craft cost antimatter to produce would be better than draining antimatter whenever there ouside the hanger this prevents the need to micro manage carriers.  In a way this makes more sense as well think of aircraft carryers in real life they need to import spare parts and aircraft periodicly think of these suplies as antimatter. 

Before you start complaing. Yes I do know that aricraft carryers need to import jet fuel as well but this is far ito the future where spacecraft harvest interstellar hydrogen for fuel.

I and many others still mantain that Capital Ships should get some sort of "weak" Flak except for the Mothership type Capital Ship (Akkan, etc) which should get moderate Flak capabilities. The Mothership-class ships will now be very useful in mid-game battles to help with AA instead of dead -weight next to the Combat Capital Ships.

I and many others mantain, it's highly unrealistic for huge expansive cap ships to not have any sort of Flak at all, even if they weren't designed to just combat enemy SC like the Flak Frigate. All popular science fiction has big ships with AA guns. Battlestar Galactic, Star Wars, etc.

Flak Frigates would still be more effective at counter Flak once Ironclad does buff Flaks (slightly in IMO 10%) and Cap ships having slight Flak capabilities (say equal to 1 Flak Frigate, Akkan equal to about 3-4) will not make them irrevelant at all. People would still very much want large groups of Flak Frigates complementing their Caps to have any effective Flak shield.   

...dead weight? You just called the Vasari egg dead weight? While the Akkan gets the very short end of the stick, the Advent malice ability is nothing to sneeze at either.

Honestly, the big complaint I keep getting is that people run before you can reach them... so why not just bomb their planets? They can't damage your planets with carriers... they'll at one point need something else to take them down. This maybe naive of me, but why not just bypass their fleet? Or destroy them before they can reach the max fleet cap and have ultimate spam of carriers?

I fought an AI with 50+ carriers in the early game, and I saw fighters and bombers dying all over the place due to my flak frigates. Flaks also good for taking out mine fields... if you have a decent sized carrier group to go into a pure defense fleet, where's the problem? Add that into the anti-strike craft abilities the caps have and it becomes less of an issue, atleast to me. If you're vasari and you had to fight them into the late game, just warp in behind their forces, take out their core worlds with caps and maybe sieges, and warp back out before his fleet can reach you. Not much strike craft can do there, eh?

Course, the Vasari can also chain-lock the enemy forces in a gravity well if they get in range.... so in the one multiplayer game I've played, I just waited for him to warp in with his supperior force of carriers, right into a PJI and a starbase, along with my vasari capital ships. Add that to mines and defenses and he didn't last long at all.

Well, 2Kols, 4Garda Flaks, (about 7) Kodiaks, and 4 tec scouts (mostly for the structure kill)vs 20 carriers ends up with the carriers being knuckeled over.

EDIT: however, I play multi very rarely.

We count thirty Rebel ships, Lord Vader, but they're so small they're evading our turbolasers."

We'll have to destroy them ship to ship. Get the crews to their fighters.

First and foremost - there is a general issue with this thread. People are using the term strike craft when they need to distinguish between fighters and bombers. You will need a lot of fighters to take down a cap. Bombers will do it with 1/2 the number. But if you have a number of fighters in your fleet, they will kill the bombers. So caps are not in immediately danger from fighters and only from bombers if your fighters don't intercept them in time...

For this reason, spamming only fighters will not let you win a battle in most situations as you get air superiority and then have to take out the enemy carriers with fighters - it doesn't work. You need a balanced fleet. HCs are a great counter for carrier spam. Yes you have to tech up to it, but it IS effective.

Another issue is that people also aren't microing their caps to kill the strike craft properly... Hence the complaints about the strike craft being too powerful.

I think the anti strike craft weapons would be a good idea, I mean the whole death star they can not get us thing is basically only existant in that movie. Even in combat now a single aircraft could wipe out the biggest ship. I think it should be a major point to the cap ships to beable to target anything.

You have a good point about the carriers. What i was getting at was that it would be neat to have insentive to launch different waves of strikecraft. If you know they will run out, then you might keep some to strike in the second wave, it adds some more dept to the game. 

I like your point about the fuel, lol. I usually ignore the supplies thing because if they can mast interstellar flight I assume they know to make fuel and food, idk, fighters just allways seem to small to me to work forever. 

With any online multiplayer game you always get exploits that result in nerf after nerf. There is really no good solution to this because if a game is complex enough it is really impossible to completely balance it. Push this down and that pops up.

So two things need to be done. First the developers need to listen to the feedback from the online players and do their best to accomodate them or eventually the online community will leave.

Mods for single player mode, maybe an officially maintained one, will keep things interesting for offline mode players or eventually they will drift away.

If we are talking about realism, how realistic is it that any aircraft carrier in any real or fictional universe can build fighters or bombers from scratch in mere seconds?

World Devestaters in SW Extended Universe....

Light Carriers have more hp and shields than Kiodiaks, etc HCs which are meant to be melee units. They also move just as fast too. Not to mention the HC is higher up in the tech tree by 2 military labs.  

TEC HCs can do micro in system jumps

Vassari HCs have a slow down ability

^^And also I believe all HC's move 20% faster than all carriers