Why no multithreading

from Sins Forums

Why is multithreading not implemented in sins?  On the requirements, says 1.8, and recommend a 2.2 dual/quad core.  I have a 2.4 dual, but only 1 core is used (check task manager).  On large maps (like random huge single star 50+ish planets), the game slows down sometime into the game.  I think its the management of all the planets, units, trade automation and such, as well as the AI's.  This game would HUGELY benifit from multithreading.  Its not the graphics, i have a high end card (Radeon 4850), and turing details to low doesn't effect FPS.  I get like ~10 fps normal, and down to ~5 viewing battles.   I can't imagine huge multi star, ~108 planets i think, with 10 players.  My 2.7 AMD 7750 BE arrives tomorrow so this should lessen this.

 

I love the game, and the graphics are decent for needing to have several hundred ships on screen at once, but the game desperatly needs multithreading.  A large portion of sins players probly have dual core anyhow, it's pretty much standard now.  Quad core is sadly trying to become standard, though 99% of computer users won't benifit past dual core, and would be better off with higher clock dual core.

 

So the game recommends multicore, would hugely benifit, but doesnt use it, which will only marginally speed up game play (2nd core can still handle system and background programs).

13,205 views 12 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

Have two Xeon quad core at 2.66 ghz... with a old NV 8800 Ultra 768 mb...

 

Huge multistar map, with 9 AI + pirate... with the biggest mod who exist, 7DS 2.0... and i have no slow down ( GFX on very high, only planet on high )...

 

For info, Sins can use 2 thread... one for the game, one for load texture...

 

One question... how much ram do you have and what is your OS ( operation system )... people come here with monster machine and complain about speed... in a lot of case, they have only 2 gb ram and are using Vista ( who eat a lot of ram )... of they have a lot of ram and are using Win32 who in basic configuration allow only a max of 2 gb for application !!!

 

PS: i have a total of 8 core and i am able to use them with Sins... but this is a other story...

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

This game would HUGELY benifit from multithreading.
End of quote

Actually it's largely a matter of memory/resource management, which is drastically improved in Entrenchment.

Groupy 2 - Organize multiple applications into grouped tabs on your Windows desktop
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

I have 2 GB RAM on xp 32, i never run out of ram in game, whenever i check always have at least ~300 MB free and can open firefox 30 tabs no problem (bad habit i know).  Parts aririved today for new system, will have 4 GB RAM.  I feel vista is way overrated, but Windows 7 looks promising.....  How do i enable multithreading?  Whenever I check only 1 core is being used.  If second is just for textures...... I doubt that would help me much.

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

well, on my core duo, I can tell the bios to recognize the 2 cores as one, logical cpu.

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting jeremyshaw, reply 4
well, on my core duo, I can tell the bios to recognize the 2 cores as one, logical cpu.
End of jeremyshaw's quote

 

I'm very interested in this feature, could you tell me what its named in the bios, and perhaps also your bios motherboard chipset and model name?

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting DaxxTrias, reply 5

Quoting jeremyshaw, reply 4well, on my core duo, I can tell the bios to recognize the 2 cores as one, logical cpu.
 

I'm very interested in this feature, could you tell me what its named in the bios, and perhaps also your bios motherboard chipset and model name?
End of DaxxTrias's quote

I also would like to which settings in the BIOS to help my quad cores and dual cores with sins

harpo

 

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

Technically it IS multi-core. It uses a seperate thread for texture loading etc... It just runs the main game on a single thread. As has been stated before, there are serious complications to making something multi-threaded. Some of these issues can actually slow something down more then running it on a single core.

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting jeremyshaw, reply 4
well, on my core duo, I can tell the bios to recognize the 2 cores as one, logical cpu.
End of jeremyshaw's quote

What you can do is disable one of your CPU's cores so that it isn't shown as what looks like two seperate CPUs for older Operating Systems, like Windows 98. Turning of the other core(s) isn't usually a good idea unless you absolutely need to. Modern Intel Dual and Quad Core chips include a feature known as Dynamic Accleration. What is basically does is when a single threaded application is running that is using the majority of one core's power and the other core is sitting idle it overclocks the in use core to allow faster program execution.

You can read more about the feature on Intel's website regarding Wide Dynamic Execution. Ensure your BIOS has this enabled if it is offered as an option.

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

I feel vista is way overrated, but Windows 7 looks promising.....
End of quote

With all of the criticism it gets, I'd say it's very much underrated.

well, on my core duo, I can tell the bios to recognize the 2 cores as one, logical cpu.
End of quote

I do not recommend that - that will hurt performance for everything.

If you wish to limit how many cores for particular applications, I recommend setting the affinity instead. You can find it by right clicking a process in the process tab of the Task Manager.

Modern Intel Dual and Quad Core chips include a feature known as Dynamic Accleration. What is basically does is when a single threaded application is running that is using the majority of one core's power and the other core is sitting idle it overclocks the in use core to allow faster program execution.
End of quote

In addition, Windows will move a CPU intensive application to its own core and move other applications to other cores: That way, the CPU heavy application gets all of the CPU cycles it needs and it won't affect the performance of other applications. Even if none of the applications are multithreaded, that can mean a very noticeable performance boost for people who like running CPU heavy applications, which often includes games.

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Hack78, reply 7
Technically it IS multi-core. It uses a seperate thread for texture loading etc... It just runs the main game on a single thread. As has been stated before, there are serious complications to making something multi-threaded. Some of these issues can actually slow something down more then running it on a single core.
End of Hack78's quote

    Whatever multithreading they have now makes a negigable differance for me anyway, as i show 1 core 100% other kinda sitting there.  I know it is more complex to code for multicore, but the perfomance improvements are huge.  Shouldn't slow down single core to much if done well, and the gain for dual+ core is worth it.  Besides, most computers bought in last few years dual core anyway.  Gamess are starting to go for multicore, and the ones that do get big performance increase.  Like I said before, I think its something with the management of the star systems, either that or something wierd in the game engine, because FPS dropps sigificantly even when showing nothing on screen, and i am sure my 3d card can very well  handle it, also lowereing GFX makes nill difference, so this shouldn't be that hard to have more multithreading....

 

Toumnsen, what kind of FPS you getting?  and how are you using your cores?

 

Edit:  I now have 4 GB RAM (3.25 seen by xp 32), and an AMD 7750 Black Edition, (as opposed to 4600+).  Seen performance increase, but still the slowdown large maps

Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

Multithreading =/= Multiprocessing.  This game already is multithreaded.  Ctrl+Alt+Del, pull up the task manager, click view, click "Select Columns...", check Thread Count.   You'll notice that virtually everything you're likely to be running, Sins included, is Multithreaded.

What you're asking for is multiprocessing...where game that spreads its threads across multiple processing cores.

Anyway, yes it would be nice.

Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting xeridea, reply 10
Toumnsen, what kind of FPS you getting?  and how are you using your cores?
End of xeridea's quote

 

Don't really count them... when all seem flow normally like in a film, it is good for me... meaning that 25 image second is good...

 

Some people are bitching, saying that with other game, they have 200 FPS and that with sins, they have only 70 FPS... In Europa a video film is 25 FPS ( i think that US is 30 FPS )... so until the framerate is not below these 25-30 FPS, i have cannot really see the difference... my meet method is my eyes, the rest i don't care...

 

I use my core with Linux who switch the process from Core to Core, from processor to processor for not have to much rise of temperature, and who allow me to use more ram... in case of very difficult game, like Sins with the biggest mod who exist, all on very high, huge multistar map and 9 AI+pirate, i use a server hardware/software virtual machine who emulate a processor at 10 ghz... both method is not for newbies... first one need you to compile wine yourself with a patch, second one need the right hardware and expensive software...