Want to know why people pirate video games?

Pirated game - essentially a demo. It prolly wont patch, you wont get online, but you can check it out. I wont even bother going to store to buy a game b4 i tried it. Wasting money on crap is not something i'm fond of.

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Every noticed that people seem to only have two states when they look at something new?

1) Wow! It works! Its awesome. This is the best thing ever!

2) FFS this is sh*t you stole my F*cking money you F*cking B*ast*rds.

and you wanna know the best bit? state two is normally induced by the user not following the instructions.

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Quoting Destroy All Monsters,

reply 10

To me it's just one more piece of software to manage that I'd rather not - whereas if Impulse were a standalone app or based on something other than IE I wouldn't have to.

You know what, it's called a software requirement. There are a lot of hardware requirements for Sins :

- A working electrical outlet

- A fully functional computer, including :

- A directX 9.0c compatible video card with 128MB of ram, a recent CPU, hard drive space, internet connection, etc.

These are all quite expensive, but surprisingly, no one seems to care.

But there are also a lot of software requirements, including :

- Windows XP or Vista

- DirectX 9.0c

- Drivers for all your hardware

- Impulse

- IE7

These are all free, except for Windows, but now getting these installed is somehow a big problem.

There is NO SUCH THING as a stand-alone application. Applications are, by definition, software running on a software platform, such as an operating system. End-user applications such as games are not written directly for the hardware, they use all kinds of software components that are assumed to be present on the customer's machine, it has been like that for decades and it will increasingly become like that. Before DirectX was made part of Windows, it was included on game discs and users would be prompted to install it. Oh no, what if I don't want DirectX ? I don't play the game ! How many applications require a Java JVM to be installed ? How many applications require .NET ? How many applications require a compliant web browser with this and that plugin installed ? Are you going to whine at every single component ? Software builds on software that builds on software and you've got to live with that.

And by the way, consider yourself lucky that a game from 2008 runs on an OS from 2001, even on the condition that you let that OS do its job (update itself, i.e. install IE7 - it will do this by default). Running new software on older OSes has always involved keeping up with the Service Packs and shit.

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2394

I always wonder how many people who complain about things like Impulse are blissfully unaware that most web browsers, including Internet Explorer, won't download anything larger than 2GB.

It's not like there's some magic alternative to having an Impulse-like download manager these days. Increasingly, games are larger than 2GB and thus, the requirement for a download manager ala Impulse.

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2394

BTW guys, there's some really good stuff in this thread. We should definitely archive this discussion as normally these kinds of threads just become horrible.

This kind of discussion is one of the reasons I'm so proud to be part of this community.

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Introduction

Piracy will always exist. If someone can get something for free they will.

I think the problem is mainly down to the price and quality of current games. £40-50 for one new Xbox 360 game, most of which are full of bugs and charge ludicrous amounts of money for downloadable content that 90% of the time is on the disc. People can't justify spending that sort of money on a single game.

Sins and Cost

I tried the demo for Sins liked it, downloaded Impulse, put my card details in and downloaded the full game at my line speed in about 10 minutes. Because I paid for it I'm entitled to join the fantastic community, receive excellent ongoing support by the developers in the form of more downloadable content and frequent patches. I also get to play online something pirates can't do as they don't have a valid CD key.

Sins - £20.00
Entrenchment - £5

Thats £25 for a full game, the first expansion and frequent updates to improve the game. If Ironclad continues the pricing scheme for the next two expansions i'll have spent £35 for the game and all three expansions. The only thing I was slightly disappointed when I brought the game was that it cost another £10-15 for shipping to have a physical copy of the disc sent to me. This is because I live in England not America. Thats another story though.

Impulse

There is nothing wrong with Impulse so people using that as an excuse, it's not washing with me.

- You don't need to run it to boot the game.

- It doesn't install any third party software, rootkits or spyware.

- Low memory usage and fast start up.

- Checks for updates to all my products as soon as I sign in.

- Links my CD keys to my profile so I can't lose them.

And for the people who are complaing about it needing IE7, you should update your PC, the internet is a dangerous place for little Timmy and his Vanilla XP.

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Quoting gaussflayer,

reply 2

Every noticed that people seem to only have two states when they look at something new?

1) Wow! It works! Its awesome. This is the best thing ever!

2) FFS this is sh*t you stole my F*cking money you F*cking B*ast*rds.

and you wanna know the best bit? state two is normally induced by the user not following the instructions.

I can argue against that statement quite well seeing that rarely is the occasion that I can't get something to work. In the case of Oblivion and Half Life 3 the fault lies in the game's horrid engine (Gamebryo), and has nothing to do with the home user. The engine, as it's been used/modified in these two games, is incompatable with thousands of computers it's being used on. The users suffer crash after crash with no (or lame, such as deleting ffdshow) explainations from Bethesda.

Try a clean format of your PC, updated windows/drivers, and you'll still suffer the same incredible crashes. I should also note that Half Life 3 was one of the most anticipated games of it's year. It even took a majority of awards at the VGA (video game awards) of 2008. For it to have so many players who meet or exceed the system requirements, and still can't play it, is just wrong.

I should also note that nither of these games offered a demo, so the only way to see if you were one of the thousands effected by this bug (which I appear to be) was to download a pirated version and test it before you went to the store to buy it. Thankfully I did just that, and saved myself spending over $120 on games that I can't play.

Check their forums, they're flooded with people who purchased the game on release day and STILL can't play it even today. Some are even having issues with the game crashing on their XBox 360's for crying out loud. What's the excuse for that? There is none!

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Quoting kryo,

reply 25

If Entrenchment were to go to retail alone, it would have to be rasied to $15 or $20 to cover the costs involved in manufacturing, distribution, advertising, and marketing. It's only so cheap as it is right now because (as a download) basically all of that money can go straight into the development budget. A combined box after all the microexpansions are done is much more feasible since the retail expenses are fairly fixed per-unit.

For europa, it will be more... simply the BTW ( TVA taxe on the added value ) can be 11% in some country, 6% in other but in mine, it is 21%... add the share of the distributor, the share of the game shop, etc... You will be fast around 40 euro... yes, i wrote euro, not $$$...

But when you are a fan, you don't care so much for a few euro more... if am bitching in these topic, it is because i wish really Entrenchment... yes, i have found a pirated version and already remove it because it don't allow me to play online...

Trust your product... same more expensive that the online version some people ( not all ) will buy the boxed version... not everybody is wishing wait years for a boxed release of the 3 expension... sure, pirate version exist but it is not the same... and very few of these using pirate version are real fan and will buy a boxed release who go out a few year after the first official release...

Maybe i will reinstall later the pirate version of Entrenchment... not for game but for test my model since i make models for various mod... and same so, pirate upgrade come one or two month after the official release... so, your release strategie will soon of later create problem in my real hobby who is modeling for sins... if i cannot more work on mod, 50% of the fun ( for me ) is already away...

I understand your point of view... you are not wrong... financial risk is not a option for a little business like you... my comment are mainly because i am a fan who is pissed off that he is not able to have what he will today...

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frogboy you know what would really make me and maybe a few others happy. Is get some stardock bumper stickers I spend $5 on it no prob. Or put up t-shirts or sell enlagered art work form your games you know $20 for a poster and $150-200 for a framed and signed one. come on you know you want to do it for the fans

please

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Hehe, I'd buy a bumper sticker... "I break for battlecruisers".... *LOL*

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Quoting Frogboy,

reply 4

I always wonder how many people who complain about things like Impulse are blissfully unaware that most web browsers, including Internet Explorer, won't download anything larger than 2GB.

Yes, i am unaware of these limit of 2 gb because with Firefox, i am able to download the last knopix version ( who is 4.7 gb )... the last time that i have hit a limit of 2 gb, it was related to the old FAT32 file system, before microsoft update win 98 to win 98 se... yes, it was in the previous millenium !!!

BTW guys, there's some really good stuff in this thread. We should definitely archive this discussion as normally these kinds of threads just become horrible.

Will not be needed to archive... a google search with "Sins of solar empire" and "piracy" give already these topic on the second page of result...

This kind of discussion is one of the reasons I'm so proud to be part of this community.

This forum is very polite... i am moderator of forum since a lot of years and i have see ( read ) some very bad excha,ge in other place... some topic here can become hot but usually, people remain enough polit to each other ( you have always exception but they are minor )... it seem that a self moderation exist here...

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Quoting gambitraven,

reply 9

frogboy you know what would really make me and maybe a few others happy. Is get some stardock bumper stickers I spend $5 on it no prob. Or put up t-shirts or sell enlagered art work form your games you know $20 for a poster and $150-200 for a framed and signed one. come on you know you want to do it for the fans

For the poster, it is already possible... with the collector edition... 29.95$ for the game + a audio CD + artworks posters + etc... it is why i have ask in a previous post if the collector edition is planned to be released by Calypso... It is really the perfect gift for friend ( or girlfriend )...

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I am wondering what constitutes the definition of piracy. To my understanding, it is forceably taking something from someone else and using it for your own self benefit. Within the realm of software, piracy is obtaining an IP without paying for it... period. Is it considered piracy if you obtain a copy of the final product in order to ensure it works with your machine/drivers/etc? I dont think it should. As many have pointed out, there is alot of crap software out there that should be and must be tested on an individuals setup before money is exchanged. I mean you can go into a store and pick up a console controller and play the latest xbox game, or you can enter a grocery store, pull a grape off the vine and taste it before you buy the whole thing, or you go to the kids section and press the buttons that say "try me" before you actually purchase the toy. Why should potential customers be barred from such benefits when they are dropping $50 into a game. If a grape is sour and not ripe, why should you get stuck with a whole vine full of them?

My problem with piracy as its intended definition is downloading a perfectly good game, keeping it installed and playing it for years without having given a dime back to the company that made it. IF the game is good... Support it! Simple as that. If it is not... Delete it and give it bad reviews on various websites warning others not to buy it. Further give legitimate reasons why its not worth buying.

I do think that a company that makes a poor product should suffer the consequences, but that doesnt mean download the game, burn a backup and play it for the next 10 years. If you are playing it for longer then to get a feel for how it runs on your machine, then you clearly like it and should purchase it.

I myself am boycotting EA because of the SecuROM business and I will not download, play, or give the time of day to anything EA. That is a brand thing, different from a software thing, but it relates to some of the piracy promotional arguments indicated earlier. I purchased Spore when it first came out. I wanted to support the technology and hardwork of Will Wright and his crew, but that is the last EA product I will purchase. The game itself was not bad, but Securom has messed up many things with my once glorious machine. Things like that should be taken to the courts, not downloaded and played out of spite. Many people have downloaded securomless versions of spore and purchased a legit copy. I dont see anything wrong with that myself. It's those who didnt buy a copy and are continuing to play it to this day that are in the wrong. This goes for those music pirates as well. If you like something, purchase it, otherwise delete it.

I, personally, dont download software anymore and havent for quite some time. I simply wait for reviews... lots of reviews. I also wait until titles end up on impulse (or steam) and wait for them to go on sale at 75% off. That is the way to go. Then, even if its a crappy game, I've only dropped $5 into it and its no real sweat off my brow.

+1

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I have notice this to I thought for sure this get ugly and get locked out but this is a good topic and will use this as referance anytime I see something else of the same nature come up.

easly one can agrue how if you download a game you could be the resion why they cance there next game.

I know the encomy is bad and i see it first hand my Parents own there own business and I and they tell me they havent really been able to take a paycheck for the last 7-8 months so yes I know the econmy is bad all the more resion to do your part and spend...ok ill stop there

I happy I went back and bought this game its one of the few thats givin me hope that the future of gaming isnt going to suck.

and Ill just quote my self to push the idea again ahah

Quoting gambitraven,

reply 9

frogboy you know what would really make me and maybe a few others happy. Is get some stardock bumper stickers I spend $5 on it no prob. Or put up t-shirts or sell enlagered art work form your games you know $20 for a poster and $150-200 for a framed and signed one. come on you know you want to do it for the fans

please

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RonLugge

Join Date 05/2004

+50

We should definitely archive this discussion as normally these kinds of threads just become horrible.

Agreed; it's actually rather amazing.

I should also note that Half Life 3 was one of the most anticipated games of it's year

Oh my god! When did that come out?! WOOOHOO!

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Quoting DrAsik,

reply 3

Quoting Destroy All Monsters,
reply 10
To me it's just one more piece of software to manage that I'd rather not - whereas if Impulse were a standalone app or based on something other than IE I wouldn't have to.

There is NO SUCH THING as a stand-alone application. Applications are, by definition, software running on a software platform, such as an operating system. End-user applications such as games are not written directly for the hardware, they use all kinds of software components that are assumed to be present on the customer's machine, it has been like that for decades and it will increasingly become like that. Before DirectX was made part of Windows, it was included on game discs and users would be prompted to install it. Oh no, what if I don't want DirectX ? I don't play the game ! How many applications require a Java JVM to be installed ? How many applications require .NET ? How many applications require a compliant web browser with this and that plugin installed ? Are you going to whine at every single component ? Software builds on software that builds on software and you've got to live with that.

And by the way, consider yourself lucky that a game from 2008 runs on an OS from 2001, even on the condition that you let that OS do its job (update itself, i.e. install IE7 - it will do this by default). Running new software on older OSes has always involved keeping up with the Service Packs and shit.

If you're going to read and respond to what I wrote I kindly ask you to read it in its entirety and respond to the spirit of it and not just use it as an excuse to put someone down anonymously. It is achingly clear that a standalone app is one that is dependent upon the code written within the actual application as opposed to an interpreted language or to another application. To say that there's no such thing as a stand alone applcation is foolhardy since - despite the fact that nearly every app requires an OS it doesn't mean that it is inherently dependent upon an optional and non-integral part of it. Regardless - you and everyone else on the forum knew exactly what it is that I meant. IE7 is not a necessary part of the operating system and is not - despite your claims - part of an initial install (depending upon the disc you received and its manufacturing date and which if any service pack is included - mine with sp2 did not) No one is talking about Direct X or anything else. You're being willfully obtuse and pedantic for no other reason than to go "nyah nyah" and play internet tough guy. IE isn't necessary to run most applications or really for much of anything else - a completely different situation from java or .net or gtk or whatnot. I would ask you next time to actually have something to say before going ahead and saying it.

Count yourself lucky? Gee thanks Dad! Steve Ballmer's got nothing on you. Cripes. Now here is my point again so that you actually follow - it's an annoyance and I run no other apps that use it. Many, many other people also have no other apps that use it. Many people actively remove or disable it. It is not (truly)cross platform (no linux support as was in the previous app). All your points have been addressed by my previous post(s).

Quoting Frogboy,

reply 4

I always wonder how many people who complain about things like Impulse are blissfully unaware that most web browsers, including Internet Explorer, won't download anything larger than 2GB.

It's not like there's some magic alternative to having an Impulse-like download manager these days. Increasingly, games are larger than 2GB and thus, the requirement for a download manager ala Impulse.

Freedownloadmanager or Orbit on every box I've built since at least 2005. I thought everyone had a download manager? Only browser I've seen with acceptable performance and restarting/resuming was Opera. I Still would like to hear why you chose IE and not something else though Brad (hopefully this doesn't sound like a challenge - I'm just unclear on why it is you made that decision). Haven't seen the 2 GB download limit myself on the browsers I use. Gog has a download manager but I've never needed to actually use it.

On the civility thing - it's nice. I just find the usual black and white positions a bit tired and boring - rather like being forced to listen to Fox News or something - the usual ill-considered hogwash and entrenched positiions.

The problem is that there is a huge gray area vis a vis piracy that typically devs and publishers don't want to address or acknowledge. It reminds me of the RIAA vs. everyone stance that one reads so often. Yet I've purchased more music from exposure to blogs and from college radio and friends than I would have otherwise. And usually I go to the shows and make sure I pay the bands directly by buying the cd's and merch at the show. Since this isn't something anyone is tracking - or has in their best interest to track - this isn't considered a real source of income - even though the musicians themselves see it. Similarly downloading a pirated version of a game that doesn't have a full featured demo and deciding whether it's something you want to buy or not isn't tracked so there's no way of knowing how many people bought game x because they had a chance to try it out first. It certainly isn't in starforce's best interest to track this - and publishers aren't tracking it either. Nor are publishers interested in providing consumers with a license that has actual value by allowing you to redownload the game if your disc is harmed or lost despite being a good customer and buying it to begin with. That is where I think Stardock and Gog "get" it unlike so many others.

While I'm rambling - here's another request: could we receive notifications of sales via email regarding what's on sale on impulse? Again, in case it wasn't heard the first time: demos and tabs please.

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Quoting StrykeZero,

reply 6

Introduction

Sins - £20.00
Entrenchment - £5

Thats £25 for a full game,

Impulse

There is nothing wrong with Impulse so people using that as an excuse, it's not washing with me.

- You don't need to run it to boot the game.

- It doesn't install any third party software, rootkits or spyware.

- Low memory usage and fast start up.

- Checks for updates to all my products as soon as I sign in.

- Links my CD keys to my profile so I can't lose them.

And for the people who are complaing about it needing IE7, you should update your PC, the internet is a dangerous place for little Timmy and his Vanilla XP.

bought sins for 50$

Entrenchment 10$

thats 60$ for a full game? not including the upcoming 2 exansions

Impulse.....

- You don't need to run it to boot the game. (agreed)

- It doesn't install any third party software, rootkits or spyware. (agreed)

- Low memory usage and fast start up. (i usualy run impulse AFTER im done with all other things since it takes near 30 seconds to load)

- Checks for updates to all my products as soon as I sign in. (agreed, tough a "would you like to check for updates" would be much better.

- Links my CD keys to my profile so I can't lose them. (agreed)

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Ultimately if people continue to pirate games without repurcussions then there will be no money in making these......and no big companies will put money forth to make epic games again. Think about that when you pirate. You're destroying your own hobby

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Quoting Shadow_of_Light,

reply 17

bought sins for 50$

Entrenchment 10$

thats 60$ for a full game? not including the upcoming 2 expansions

I'm working in pounds. The game for digital download only is $29.95 and the expansion is $9.95. $39.90 in total.

Currency conversion from $ to £ at current rates from XE.com £28.35. The $60 you quoted comes to about £42.63

I had the digital download version from Impulse.

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RonLugge

Join Date 05/2004

+50

IE7 is not a necessary part of the operating system and is not - despite your claims - part of an initial install (depending upon the disc you received and its manufacturing date and which if any service pack is included - mine with sp2 did not)

Except IE7 is a necessary part of the OS.

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I most often do "Try Before Buy", I can actually be honest to say I did pirate Sins of A Solar Empire. But it was so freaking great I bought it. I even bought the expantion with out even blinking.

Most people pirate because games today are very expensive, also the copy protection scare people of. I really love the way Stardock and Gas Powered Games believe that its better to skip the copy protection because the destroy for our paying costumers.

Also I really like that both Ironclade and Stardock is very active in the forum and listen to us (paying) users. This make it worth buying the game since the developer listens to us.

So now, I really looking forward to Micro Expantion 2, and Demigod!

EDIT: I also pirate the game so make sure it works on my PC before I buy it. I don't believe Demos judify that since they most often are two complete diffrent setups.

EDIT2: I never would have heard of Sins of a Solar Empire if it wasn't for piracy by the way.

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I'll tell you why people pirate games... There are no viable free alternatives... There, that's it... Nothing to see here anymore, move along...

Oh... You're still here? Oh well, I'll go on then...

I'm not saying it's a good reason, I'm just saying why it's done. As long as the number one game in a genre isn't free, people will pirate games. Well, people will pirate games ANYWAY even if that would change, but for different reasons...

The problem is that people put too much value on money. The developers want to make the big bucks on any blockbuster game, the "true" gamers want to play all the cool games, and value the money they got too much to part with it and buy them all...

Solution? Beats me... How do we convince people that money just isn't that important when it's the most widely used currency for judging success?

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Quoting Frogboy,

reply 4

I always wonder how many people who complain about things like Impulse are blissfully unaware that most web browsers, including Internet Explorer, won't download anything larger than 2GB.

It's not like there's some magic alternative to having an Impulse-like download manager these days. Increasingly, games are larger than 2GB and thus, the requirement for a download manager ala Impulse.

actually, firefox can allow you to download more than 4gb, I downloaded full Linux using firefox

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For a lot of people (most likely not the majority, however) the 'try before you buy' argument stands rather strong.

Me, I did pirate a copy of Sins shortly after it came out. I was amazed by the game, due to it not having a single player campaign however I knew I would not be playing it for long. Still, I kind of made a silent promise to buy both the original and the expansion once it comes out (back then there was still talk of a single player campaign being included in the expansion if I recall correctly).

Well, here I am. Even though there still isn't a single player campaign/story mode (which, unfortunately, is why I put Sins aside again for now) I did as I said and bought both the original and the expansion.

So, to view piracy solely as the big evil that'll destroy the gaming industry (and the video and music industries to boot) people might want to look at it from a different angle for a change.

Sure, bad stuff will sell even less than before - but good stuff won't be impacted that badly by it (if, and that's a pretty big one I believe, the industry finally stops with that DRM, online activation, activation limit and whatever else they come up with bullcrap).

In fact, good games (like Sins) might even profit from piracy somewhat. See it as free advertising to a certain extent.

Oh, and one thing that'll never stop bugging me is those industry monkeys who'll claim that every (or nigh every) pirated copy of a game/dvd/album is a lost sale. This simply doesn't even come close to reality.

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The short version is "Piracy is bad, mmmkay"

The long version is "Piracy is mostly bad, mmmkay"

The REALLY long answer will cause a minimum of 380 posts flamewar between developers, people who think piracy is bad because they can afford to buy everything they want and those who think piracy is a legit way to try before you buy... (Those who just pirate games and won't buy them will remain silent)

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