If carriers are starting to not me worth it is because they over nerfed it. But so far I have no trouble thining out sufficiently the LRMs to kill the flak.

please close this thread. It started bad, and it's now going totally off the rails.

Even if Siddy is correct about the flak/LRM combo (I'm not agreeing or disagreeing - just assuming he is for the sake of this argument), SC still have a place when fighting enemy starbases as your fleet can stay out of range of their starbase and let the SC kill the starbase. This assumes that you have no enemy fleet in system to oppose you...

Entrenchment/Gameinfo/Gameplay

or Gameinfo/Gameplay (for vanilla)

H!

Thank you! Seems the search function in WinXP doesn't work right, since I searched the entire GameInfo folder for the keyword(s) in files, but come up empty.

BR,  Iztok

you dont need guardians.... just fuckload of illus and flacks at the start, you rush, you win.

period. No fighter cover you can manage to come up in the time i get the sufficient force of illus/flak will stop my illus, and no kobalt swarm going to dent my flaks cause my illus will om nom nom them fast.

combined carrier/LF force that suposedly countter LRM/Flak will lose to what they are supose to counter.

All that is atributed to flaks phenomenal HP. No way to remove them fast enought, before your fighters die and your LF's go dodo's way, too.

one progen cant pump enought shields to make guardians worth the while, espesialy after you make multiple jumps and got no AM left.

you want just fuck everything up with 20 or so illus and cover that with 10 -12 flak.

Work same with vasari.  Espesialy since both benefit from phaaaase missiles.

I still build lots of carriers, but I now end up docking them.  I also build, depending on stiuation of course, 1/3 fighters and 2/3 bombers.  The fighters help the flak to take out other fighters and then bombers.  The bombers can then take out repair bays and SBs.  The strategy works nicely.  You can attack a SB without losing a ship.

So, no, carriers do not suck, you just have to use them correctly and dock the SC when needed.

ok  so i prepared this tiny speech during the time the page loaded.... 

FLAK IS OVERPOWERED WTF R U TALKING ABOUT??

theyre only really usefull against fighters, "and they should be"  

yes theyre hard to remove but they cant kil anything else either....

(cant kil anything else either, cant kil anything else either, cant kil anything else either)   

remeber that -.-  theyre useless  other then being able to kil squadrons and having high health / armor

yes ofcourse lrf's are weak agaisnt them,  why?  its perfect that way,  atleast removes some functionality from the lrf wich already is a frigate suited for alot situations,  and gives it to the light frigate,  wich can use some more usefullness....

so put together

flaks r fine

high armor/health

low damage / usefullness vs anything but fighters

light frigates and heavy cruisers kil them very fast

if you'd nerf the flak,  nobody will ever use it again.. flaks are a strong unit vs carrier(and thus squadron) masses,  when they fnialy fix the carrier/squadrons  its usefullnes will go down again...  its perfectly suited for a single role... dont make it even weaker -.-

Your manners are extraordinary. I'm sure people will listen to you now and consider your arguments.

If you can't kill flaks, you're doing something horribly wrong. I'm sorry, but that's all there is too it. If he has support cruisers, kill those first. Flaks won't kill anything of your fleet anytime soon. Especially if you bring supports of your own. Flaks should almost always be the last priority when killing an enemy fleet and that's the way it should be. Otherwise it would be far to easy to remove the SC killing potential from a fleet and completely dominate with SC. The way it is now, flaks already have enough trouble keeping the rest of your fleet protected from the dreaded first wave of SC, you don't need to make them more vulnerable so they get picked off first.

Flaks don't kill any frigates efficiently. Only against LRF they sorta come close. So it's no big deal they're hard too kill. Also, we really don't need people complaining about Flaks after we've had LRFs and Carriers. Is this the new flavour of the day or something? Next, people are going to complain about Gauss platforms or anti-structure cruisers .

pot kettle

I support transitive here.

In the future if flak truely becomes overpowered they are 2 chnages that can be made to resolve it.

1) reduce the carriers build rate penealty form 75% to 50% (so that illum/flak spams cannot live on their own)

2) Reduce Anti-verylight vs medium armor from 0.5 to .25 (This will only help to strengten the role of LFs as flak counters)

Other then then that I don't see any chnages that could be done that wouldnt renerf it to hell.

I can see what Siddy is getting at.

While they don't do much damage, the flak do do damage and can take a pounding due to HP and armor. The 360 field of fire also helps them.

 And he is also right about taking them out with LF not working. LF will not be able to take out the flak effectively until the LRM are gone. The only way to do this is with LRM or HCs since the flak will thin out the fighters fairly quickly.

And noted - Siddy now has 5 karma due to getting +1 for this thread