Tyrs tricks for beating vas SBs movement

from Sins Forums

everyones main concern with vasari is that it moves, so this is the easy counter. use its massive size, slow movement, and horrendously bad turn radius to your advantage.

seeing as to how easily it gets hung up on resourse mines, structures, and ships. use these to your advantage. jump in with a small "decoy fleet" or even just a scout (something fast) LF are a good bet. lead it to the other side of the gravity well, behind a wall of structures, or even behind the planet itself. then jump in your fleet and you SB builder. while the enemy SB is hung up on structures or too far a way, shred his repair bays and jump inhibs with your fleet and siege cruisers, build your own SB. i often jump in 2 SB builders so if they kill my first attempt ill have another better positioned away from threats (if i afford that of course)

idealy you have plenty of bombers to kill all his military structures off while playing ring around the rosey with SB (usually dont wanna kill the civ structures because they will be serious stone walls if you stear the SB into them just right), just run your fleet around hitting SB with bombers if they havent been all flak'd out and if your vas run your SB while you upg it as needed. frontal deflectors is a must if you use vas SB vs another SB. you can bomb a normal planet with a marza or evacuator lvl 6 before the SB get to you, so if you can capture it and build repairs opposite side of planet from SB your money.

this is a basic outline, but bottom line is that with proper micro you shouldnt need to engage vas SB until your ready. with experiance youll find its much easier than it sounds

strategy
14,354 views 23 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

if anyone has questions about stratagies and how i handle differant problems multiplayer online pvp then heres the place to ask, heres where ill see them and try to respond.

i would love to see a higher ratio of skilled players online so ill do what i can here on the forum =D

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

What if the SB owner does, like I do, something to stop the starbase from chasing the decoy?  The starbase's highest priority target is usually siege frigates, so I usually target it on a cap ship (which are often in range of the siege frigates anyway).  It moves towards the cap but targets the stuff around it too.  Or you can move the SB back and forth in front of the stationary defenses, while it continues to target everything in range.  The only time I make an exception to either of these is when there are more than 1 or 2 ogrovs, and then I just target them and the SB eats its way through the fleet to get them.

Best way I've found to kill orkuli is to send two constructors 180 degrees apart from each other expecting only the second one to live, lots of bombers, and then nano-disassemble and deintegrate it.  the desolator almost acts as a bullet sponge to keep the egg from dying too fast.  Multiple eggs are nice, but not required.

I only play vasari, no idea what the others should do.

Siege of Centauri
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

thanks tyr but i already know to deal with vasaris SBs

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

Build a bunch of Orgovs and attack the Vasari SB from the rear while laying mines around the Orgovs?

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting CoBBQ, reply 4
Build a bunch of Orgovs and attack the Vasari SB from the rear while laying mines around the Orgovs?
End of CoBBQ's quote

Tec can build mines in enemy grav wells?

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting lich1989, reply 5

Quoting CoBBQ, reply 4Build a bunch of Orgovs and attack the Vasari SB from the rear while laying mines around the Orgovs?
Tec can build mines in enemy grav wells?
End of lich1989's quote

 

Once you taken the planet, yes.

 

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting CoBBQ, reply 6

Quoting lich1989, reply 5
Quoting CoBBQ, reply 4Build a bunch of Orgovs and attack the Vasari SB from the rear while laying mines around the Orgovs?
Tec can build mines in enemy grav wells?
 

Once you taken the planet, yes.

 
End of CoBBQ's quote

 

That seems unreasonably difficult to do, if possible at all.

 

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

just tryin to make people think, i often see people who seem to be SB retarded so i hope this gets some hamspter runnin up in their skulls =D

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

Only problem with this strat is that a person who knows how to play Vas correctly will not allow his SB to wander aimlessly around his planet chasing "decoys."  I place my SB in a very strategic position in the midst of a minimum of 2-3 Repair bays (where all repair bays are healling the SB...this allows for not selecting the Debris vortex and using that last upgrade for something more important) about middle of the grav well.  That way when any ships/fleet jump in they will be hit by the SB by the time they get around and out of range.  I also have enough PI's to keep the subsequent flee/run option out of the question.  I fyou do get your fleet around the SB by the time you are jumping out...the SB has caught and killed a nice chunk of your fleet.

Assuming this is late enough in the game that you have a fairly large fleet and you do manage to phase out to an inner planet...I will have another SB up in that well by that point in time that will do the same thing.

Good try on the strat, but will only work on n00bs and idiots.

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

And FSM/cthulu help the player who lets someone put 4+ angry orkuli in a star grav well with mines.  It's a veritable lvl up factory for virgin caps.

Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

Plus, I always have a few ships in each well with my SB's.  Usually by this time in the game, I alao 1 or 2 "virgin" caps in each of my outer planets to catch all of the easy exp and level them up quickly.

Works every time.

Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top

It would seem to me that a fine way to counter the Frontal Deflector is simple flank attacks, either come in from different phase lanes or as far apart as you can on the same phase lane, if the SB chases one group the other hammers on the back. You could even circle it so the frontal deflector is only working against a small amount of the damage heading for it.

Against someone with Debris Vortex, you could try to retreat damaged ships before they get destroyed, if the Orky chases then it leaves it's postion and you can sneak siege ships in, if not your ships live and it doesn't get to repair that way.

It works fairly well against the AI and my brother, but it's not like he's very experienced (not that I am, either)

Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting CoBBQ, reply 6



Quoting lich1989,
reply 5

Quoting CoBBQ, reply 4Build a bunch of Orgovs and attack the Vasari SB from the rear while laying mines around the Orgovs?
Tec can build mines in enemy grav wells?


 

Once you taken the planet, yes.

 
End of CoBBQ's quote

Then it really isn't an enemy grav well then is it???

Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting TheSpydyr, reply 9
Only problem with this strat is that a person who knows how to play Vas correctly will not allow his SB to wander aimlessly around his planet chasing "decoys."  I place my SB in a very strategic position in the midst of a minimum of 2-3 Repair bays (where all repair bays are healling the SB...this allows for not selecting the Debris vortex and using that last upgrade for something more important) about middle of the grav well.  That way when any ships/fleet jump in they will be hit by the SB by the time they get around and out of range.  I also have enough PI's to keep the subsequent flee/run option out of the question.  I fyou do get your fleet around the SB by the time you are jumping out...the SB has caught and killed a nice chunk of your fleet.

Assuming this is late enough in the game that you have a fairly large fleet and you do manage to phase out to an inner planet...I will have another SB up in that well by that point in time that will do the same thing.

Good try on the strat, but will only work on n00bs and idiots.
End of TheSpydyr's quote

youd be surprised how long it takes people to notice these things, ive sucessfully used this strat in 2/3rds of my SB kills, even a skill player cant always avoid getting his SB hung up on those repair bays while the bombers are doing their work

Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top

It would seem to me that a fine way to counter the Frontal Deflector is simple flank attacks, either come in from different phase lanes or as far apart as you can on the same phase lane, if the SB chases one group the other hammers on the back. You could even circle it so the frontal deflector is only working against a small amount of the damage heading for it.
End of quote

frontal deflector is almost exclusivly useful against other SBs

Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting tyr222, reply 14

youd be surprised how long it takes people to notice these things, ive sucessfully used this strat in 2/3rds of my SB kills, even a skill player cant always avoid getting his SB hung up on those repair bays while the bombers are doing their work
End of tyr222's quote

If you have 3-4 strategically placed hangar bays who have built all fighters (and possibly 1 upgrade to the SB with 4 extra fighters), then they will kill off all bombers before they can do any serious damage.  You might lose 1 or 2 structures, but you can easily rebuild those while effectively eliminating any fleet that is in the system.

Plus, I put my SB "move strat" to be "Hold Position." that way I don't have to micro-manage unless I feel the necessity.  If the attacking fleet tries to move around the SB, then I micro and move it accordingly.  And no I wouldn't be surprised, most peeps don't fully understand how to pay attention to what is happening and how to be able to micro at the right times.  That is why I said any good Vas player who knows what they are doing.

Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top

frontal deflector is also extremely useful against direct firing frigates. if nothing else it forces the frigates to maneuver to a different firing position and thus causes them to lose time in the fight. the starbase is equally armed in all directions so it will keepm pounding away at the frigates as them manuever to get rear shots in. its a big help. 

 

seriously though, bombers are how you kill Orkulas. starbases are quite durable and can have some of their own fighters so it might take ALOT of bombers, but there's no better way to deal with them. 

Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top

if anyone has questions about stratagies and how i handle differant problems multiplayer online pvp then heres the place to ask, heres where ill see them and try to respond.
End of quote

Okay here's one.  What's a good general open for Advent on non-accelerated start?  Seems that drone hosts are enormously expensive to go straight to those tech 2, plus people can build a lot of flak and neutralize them, and 3 labs for illums at the start takes time, is expensive, etc.

Reply #19 from Sins Forums Top

Here's another one.  How do I beat JJ's assailant spam + death egg rush as any race?

Reply #20 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Agent, reply 19
Here's another one.  How do I beat JJ's assailant spam + death egg rush as any race?
End of Agent's quote

YOU DON'T.........................................}:) }:) }:)

Reply #21 from Sins Forums Top

Okay here's one.  What's a good general open for Advent on non-accelerated start?  Seems that drone hosts are enormously expensive to go straight to those tech 2, plus people can build a lot of flak and neutralize them, and 3 labs for illums at the start takes time, is expensive, etc.

mothership--makes the logistics upgrade on those first couple of captured planets cheaper.  have enough cash and resources to do that upgrade along with pop.  it seems that with advent you just need illums early.  i agree about drone hosts.  i don't build them until i have enough fleet to protect them (guardians or at least enough disciples to keep around them to keep the enemy lf's away.)

this probably isn't news to you--you have a lot of exp.  i'd just thought i'd throw it out there.  is there a way to succeed early as advent without illums?  i always try to get 3 military 3 civ labs ASAP (to get illums and trade ports.)  i usually have to let my fleet suffer a bit.  obviously won't work on a really small map....

sorry--maybe all this is too obvious.

Reply #22 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Agent, reply 18

if anyone has questions about stratagies and how i handle differant problems multiplayer online pvp then heres the place to ask, heres where ill see them and try to respond.


Okay here's one.  What's a good general open for Advent on non-accelerated start? 
End of Agent's quote

 

Tyr, I'm interested in your start as TEC, or any of your strats for that matter.

Thanks for any input!

RM

Reply #23 from Sins Forums Top

any tips for cap micro? i cant seem to get mine to stop being stupid. ill get it out at 2500hp but it somehow manages to limp to the grav well and dies. tips? vas egg ofc.