Has it ever occured to anyone that, over the course of history, humans often come to the conclusion that anything that cannot be explained at the moment is automatically considered to be supernatural? For example, the Greeks. They had a god for just about anything that they could not explain with their means of science or technology at the time. How else could they explain the torrent of fire and molten lava that spwes out of a volcano? By claiming that Hephasteus is simply working in his forge of course.
But fast forward to today. And we know that isn't the case. The advent of computers, automobiles, airplanes, etc etc etc, would simply astound the Ancient Greeks. They would consider us gods. They would be unable to speak out of pure awe.
And since science is never ending in the sense that, with each question answered, more questions are formed... we still do not have a logical explanation for God. That being that supposedly judges us from afar, and moves through us all.
Think about it though... what if we just haven't reached the technological threshold to explain it yet?
It could be possible, that "God" is nothing more than a wave that interacts with our matter. Influencing our decisions with maybe electrical impulses or something similar. Religion is making "god" more important than it really is. With the advent of more powerful technology, we may be able to see what it is that moves through us all. More than likely, it is just another force of nature. It justs exists. It is there, always has been. But it is not a being, it is not something to worship... it is just not something we can understand. YET.
Basically, what I am trying to say is, we humans have proven over time that with the advent of better technology we can understand the ways of nature around us. So what's to stop us from unlocking the secrets of the universe? As well as explaining what "god" really is? We just can't comprehend it yet... but we will in time I think. Just like we did with volcanoes, oceans, telephones, airplanes, etc etc etc.
Religion is powerful in many ways no doubt. It helps certain people get through rough times, and to them, it explains the way things are as well giving them a code of ethics that they can follow. But religion is also on a way ticket to being obsolete. If science can bridge the gap between the two, what now?
Now just so everyone knows, I am not trying to attack anyones beliefs, I am merely wondering outloud if the above could be the case. I would also like to hear what other people have to say. Please be open-minded, and rational.
I will explain in better detail some ideas that I have heard as well some of my own if a great dialogue can be established.
More than likely, it is just another force of nature. It justs exists. It is there, always has been. But it is not a being, it is not something to worship... it is just not something we can understand. YET.
You enter a debate explaining your side and then slam the door of debate by presenting a bias that you won't permit to be overcome. You have framed the debate saying you would like to hear what other people have to, but have defined 'open-minded' and 'rational' insofar as they fit into the frame that God is not a being, not something to worship. You have instantly close yourself off and ended the debate.
You want facts to support God is not a being, not a creator of all things, and since not creator, incapable of making demands on your person and thus rightly to be taken with a grain of salt. Religion -primarily Christianity- says God is creator without having been created himself, is capable of making demands on us as his creation and is by his very nature worthy of being worshiped. This isn't so much 'Religion', but relationship.
Accepting that there is a God, whose attributes are explained next, there is a choice to have a relationship or to not. If there is no God, like described next, then there is nothing personal about the universe, no relationship, and no promise beyond this physical existence. If this is all there is, then take whatever you like for there is no God to hold you accountable, nor judge to avenge your victims. However, if there is such a God who is a being, creator, king -not simply Elohim, but Yahweh Elohim; not power, but person and power- then there is a God to hold you accountable to the rules he has set out and a judge to avenge your victims. This is what is either a blessing to mankind or its greatest fear. Rejecting this personal God, as you do, diminishes him not a bit, but only yourself.
What you really want is a God that is not God. God, as he defines himself, to the Jewish people and later Christians through his Messiah, is Spirit, Independent and Self-Existent, Immutable, Eternal, Omnipresent, Omniscient, Good, Holy, Righteous, Faithful, Sovereign with none on par with Him, and Omnipotent. To say, God is not God, but a mere force is to make Him a thing instead of person (no relationship with thing possible), Dependent on the other forces at work in the universe, Changeable just like the universe itself undergoes change over time, Limited in life/presence/knowledge/power, has no goodness because there is no power to do anything, without personal nature there is no goodness, holiness, faithfulness, rulership and again -no true power whatsoever.
A God who could be fully understood by his creations would be no God at all but a cheap trickster.
I really suggest you read through "KNOWING GOD" by Packer or "Your God is too small"; great books, analytical, dense! But... best source is bible -old and new.
It is really quite easy to accept God as he explains himself in the bible even if humanity, even those claiming to follow him, acts an opposite manner. Once God is accepted as he is, then scientific pursuit seeks to give an understanding of his majesty. But, you have framed this debate to exclude a God who is outside your limited definition and to convince you there is a God as I've described is not my responsibility to prove to your satisfaction, but the domain of the God I have described to you. But I can yell all day that the sky is blue, but if you refuse to open your eyes even the slightest bit you could tell me it is one of a billion different colors, say that I am a lunatic, and/or say the sky doesn't exist at all.
Up to you m8. But a 'debate' or 'discussion' really can't happen yet, can it?