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Join Date 04/2009
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Video Cards, which?

GeForce 9500 GS vs Radeon x1950 Pro

April 19, 2009 2:48:31 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

So i bought this HP Pavilion Elite m9500f after my previous rig that i built myself died after 6 years (it went through a lot of upgrades, but finally one day the power supply fan had two blades snap, get stuck in the grill of the fan itself, which stopped the fan from spinning, which overheated the PSU, which then made toast out of most of my hardware).  I live in Japan so it's usually a hassle to get good quality parts: i either have to order them and have them mailed here from the USA, or stick with the always-out-of-date local PC shop's supply.

 

So, this m9500f came with a GeForce 9500 GS video card.  It's not bad...and it works very well.  However (and it's not just me, according to a quick google search) the damned video card starts sounding like a lawnmower.  Mine just started this earlier this week, and i've had the PC for about two weeks.  What it supposedly is, is the fan on the video card (actually, the bearings/axle from what some others have stated).  They posted a video about how to lube up some PC fans on youtube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkweJKSOYgo, however i don't have any industrial oil, so i'll probablyl end up using canola oil or something.

 

Anyway, after reading about the BS that HP knows about it, will still give you crap for wanting a replacement, and that the replacements normally have the same problem, i'm trying to decide what other video card i should stick in there.   Now, when i bought this PC, i bought a GeForce 8800 GT to throw in there.  What i didn't realize (having never bought a PC from an actual proprietary company before) is that it has next to no space for upgrades in it.  I mean hell, the drive bay is buried all the way under this proprietary "HP Media Drive" bay (which now houses extra cables...so i got to clean some of the mess up).  After fitting the 8800GT in there, i realized that it was extremely hot...i never even thought about it.

But one day after playing some COD4 online, my FPS started to drop dramatically, and touching the side of the case was uncomfortable.  I've since then taken the card back.  i could have bought an extra fan, or heat sink, or something for it....but there just wasn't any room. 

So in my closet i've got the Radeon x1950 Pro, x1650 Pro, and that's it.  If anyone has any ideas on some other cheap cards (if neither of these are good), i'd like some ideas...but they can't be this new "long" type model that most video card companies are producing.  Everything about the PC has gotten smaller (except for storage size) in the past 10 years except for Video cards, which are now getting larger....it's very strange!

 

So yea...GeForce 9500 GS vs Radeon x1950 Pro, which is better (minus the fan noise)?  Just want to make sure this x1950 Pro can run Sins and The Last Remnant (new game from Square Enix) before i pop that thing in.

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Saint Mina
Join Date 07/2007
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Reply #1 April 19, 2009 5:36:18 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums

    I use ATI Radeon x1550 and I like but I going to upgrade to a better card so I will be keeping an eye on this thread.

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Snarl
Join Date 08/2003
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Reply #2 April 19, 2009 7:54:51 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

I would have suggested you keep the 8800GT and cut a hole in the side of the case for a Fan to cool the Video Card, possibly another hole somewhere else for another Fan. However I can't find any pictures of the case open so I can see what's inside.

 

Cheers; Snarl

 

 

 

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_Nebulocity_
Join Date 04/2009
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Reply #3 April 19, 2009 6:27:44 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Snarl,
reply 2
I would have suggested you keep the 8800GT and cut a hole in the side of the case for a Fan to cool the Video Card, possibly another hole somewhere else for another Fan. However I can't find any pictures of the case open so I can see what's inside.

 

Cheers; Snarl

 

 

Well, like i said, the machine is an HP (Hewlet-packard), so if there were ever any issues with it i'd have to return it.  I have custom cases that i've made myself with some plastic and a dremel to cut and mount fans over important parts in the PC (CPU, Ram, GPU), however i think its sort of overkill to take this HP and relocate it to another case.

I did end up fixing the fan noise i think.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkweJKSOYgo shows someone oiling up their rear case fan to make it stop making noises...so last night i disassembled my 9500 GS and put it back together again.  Unfortunately i couldn't add the oil to the fan axle, due to it having some sort of plastic goop filling that hole...had to resort to taking a baby's ear pick (you know...to clean your ears with, but smaller), flattening it with a quick whack with a hammer, dabbing it in oil, and just barely being able to touch the inner workings of the fan.

 

However, i did install the Nvidia system monitor tools and RivaTuner.  After fiddling with RivaTuner for a while, i put the slider for my fan to 100% and it stopped working (anything over 95% made the fan stop).  However, putting it at 25% made the fan spin up to it's max setting, and i haven't heard the noise since.


My GPU temp has also gone from 142.xx degrees Farenheit to 118.4 degrees Farenheit (i was running Neverwinter Nights 2: Storm of Zehir, and Sins of a Solar Empire in windowed mode, with World of Goo maximized, just to put some stress on it...NWN2 was in combat with a giant group of monsters, and Sins was a loaded game towards the end of a 1v1 where i owned a ton of planets and practically had a 20-30 ship fleet at every strategic point in the game).  Didn't go above 120 F. 

 

So i think that might have fixed it   Still might toss my x1950 Pro in there, that thing served me well over the past year (and it doesn't get as hot!).  Kind of sucks that this machine only has 1x PCI-E 2.0 slot...no PCI and no AGP slots.  Can't plug in another card   ALthough this card does have two DVI outs...kind of curious about plugging in my wife's monitor and play Sins on dual screen (i used to run 4x 20" monitors until i broke one while playing wiffle ball in the house with the kids ><)

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blackcurtain
Join Date 01/2009
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Reply #4 April 19, 2009 6:48:34 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

being space is limited in your box this may not do any good.

but, Antec has a fan called Spot Cool. it is made to mount to any single screw in the box with a bendable base so you can aim it at pretty much anything in the case.

it might be worth checking out.

 

as far as the other comment of cutting a whole for another fan, and your response to returning it to HP if it has any problems.

you may want to check your warranty. Most Proprietary warranties are voided if you do anything to that rig without it being done by an Authorized service center. that said you may have already voided your warranty by 1, opening the case, 2. replacing the card with the 8800, and 3.trying to fix the fan problem.  you'll be lucky if HP will honor that warranty at all now.

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Jrla21
Join Date 08/2008
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Reply #5 April 19, 2009 6:57:02 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I run a GeForce 9600GT Verto Card in My PC, and it makes next to no noise. I didn't have PC overheat problems, and the card works great. I got the card for about $89.99 at Fry's Electronics here in Houston. (I still had to drive like an hour to get there) Also, nvidia also will give you a $40 rebate on it. The Card itself has a pretty good sized fan on it, but the plus side is that my computer's lag stopped. 

 

Also in reference to your statement about 2 monitors, the GPU will have 2 sots, one for standard quality, and one for HD quality. That is the way nvidia is making them now. It won't let you run 2 at the same time. Go figure   , unless you buy the dual slot motherboard, and another GPU, which will run you close to $300. I know i've tried.  

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PeTTs0n
Join Date 11/2008
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Reply #6 April 20, 2009 7:16:24 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Performance-wise, I'd recommend checking HWBot.org where you can compare (it's just a rough comparison, don't take it all too serious) graphic card and CPU performance. From the looks of it, they're pretty much equal, though the 9500GS takes a lead in the newer tests, not strange since it is a newer product.

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TurdFergus0n
Join Date 04/2008
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Reply #7 April 20, 2009 9:44:46 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I have a few suggestions regarding video card choices and what not, but first off, the nvidia 9XXX series of graphics cards are the same gpu from the 8800 series but in a smaller form factor, thusly more dies per wafer of silicon, less heat n higher clocks. Yes they are decent low end cards that will play a decent amount of todays games at moderate to high settings, pending moniter resolution and cpu speed. In the end, in my opinion, youd be getting a card thats a few generations behind todays gpu's. if heat is a concern, add a case intake fan to increase the air flow within the case. Another choice would be to pick a gpu with a non reference cooler on it. My goal when searching for a peice of computer hardware is always what i can give me the biggest bang for my buck. A solid, $90-130 graphics card solution would be the ATI HD4830. Its about the same price as the 9500gs as u listed above from newegg.com and really outperforms it as well. A more expensive but much more powerful card is the 4870 512mb. for ~150 w/ a non reference cooler. Its honestly crazy the performance the latest ATI cards deliver for their low price. I used to be a nvidia only kinda guy and i could pass up the performance to price ratio. I wouldnt put all my trust into google for looking up video card reviews, some good sites that are well accredited are tomshardware.com, 3dguru.com and anandtech.com. Anandtech is much more technical while Toms is much more straightforward and has pretty graphs to boot too. Hope my insight helps you.

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suico
Join Date 01/2009
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Reply #8 April 20, 2009 2:25:37 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

You should keep your 8800 and buy a new case... cheaper than buying a new video card and resolves your problems... but be sure to buy a good one, i recently bougth a antec three hundred and it's great: http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/product.php?id=MjQ=

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andeemac2006
Join Date 04/2009
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Reply #9 April 20, 2009 2:41:16 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

The annoying factor that none of the Card manufacturers seem to think important is,  to put on the front of the Box

"this card needs a 400watt or above Power supply ??" on the front of the Box in large type face

No they are quite happy for people to get home install there card, reboot to find either the Computer wont function

or Video is very poor

Also when are all $500 and above PC's going to be fitted with a 400 watt power supply as standard ????

would it add that much money to the final Price ???? of the said PC

Anyway you look at this trap !! it is in this day and age its Very Poor customer care on behalf of the Video card manufacturers

and PC Computer manufacturers.

Good Gaming cards cost only $100 dollars these day but they need a minimum of 450 watt power supplys

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mickeko
Join Date 09/2008
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Reply #10 April 20, 2009 3:27:08 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Quoting andeemac2006,
reply 9
The annoying factor that none of the Card manufacturers seem to think important is,  to put on the front of the Box

"this card needs a 400watt or above Power supply ??" on the front of the Box in large type face

No they are quite happy for people to get home install there card, reboot to find either the Computer wont function

or Video is very poor

Also when are all $500 and above PC's going to be fitted with a 400 watt power supply as standard ????

would it add that much money to the final Price ???? of the said PC

Anyway you look at this trap !! it is in this day and age its Very Poor customer care on behalf of the Video card manufacturers

and PC Computer manufacturers.

Good Gaming cards cost only $100 dollars these day but they need a minimum of 450 watt power supplys

The video card doesn't need 400W... Depending on the card it can be anything from 15W to 200W (I've not seen any card needing more than that unless overclocking). The card manufacturer have no idea how much other stuff you have in your computer that use power. Also, regardless of if you have 400W or 650W it won't help you anything if you connect the 12V rails incorrect and try to pull more power from a single rail than it's specced for. No PSU available allow the full wattage to be pulled out of the same rail. Read the label on the power supply and you'll see. Also, there are also HUGE differences between powersupplies. A quality 350W powersupply can power a more powerhungry graphics card than a 450W noname low end one.

 

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