A (Huge) Improvement to my Last Military Strategy Guide.

  Since my last guide was a complete work of slop, I'm going to try again.  I've learned from the (harsh) criticism from many others, and I think I'm ready.  Hope this one isn't a complete dud like the last one.

1. Each of the three races has advantages and disadvantages that are easy to find early when you start playing.  The TEC has ships that are inexpensive,fairly strong, and they don't take up too much space. They've also got the best Heavy Cruisers that anyone could ask for.  Despite this, their frigates' armor, sheilds, and hull points are sort of pitiful.  Not the best empire for those who fear being blown to bits in an instant, as this empire can make your fear all the more real.

  The Vasari have ships with very strong hulls, and one of their capital ships can increase your fleet size.  However, their ships are almost twice as expensive, and they take up more fleet space, in my opinion, than is needed.  I mean, their light frigates take up 6 fleet capacity!  However, their main strength is in that of their missile-wielding ships.  With research, the Vasari's ships' phase missiles can bypass shields, making them all the more useful.

The Advent are true power hitters, having frigates that do considerably more damage than frigates than other empires.  Since their main power is also in their shields, they stay on the feild longer because of something called "shield mitigation", which is the best thing about shields.  However, the Advent's Illuminator vessels are sort of expensive, and you need 3 military lab structures to research them.

2.  There is sort of a combat triangle to these empires.  The TEC's huge numbers can obliterate over-expensive Vasari fleets.  Vasari missiles can go right through the shields of the Advent, crippling them greatly.  Finally, the Advent's hugely superior PsiTech can obliterate the weak hulls of the TEC's ships.  Use these strengths and weaknesses to your advantage.

3.  A balanced team is a superior team.  Don't spam Javelis frigates when your opponent may have heavy cruisers waiting for you at the planet next door.  Trust me, take it from someone who knows firsthand.

4.  However, OCCASIONAL spamming may be needed to take down a spammed fleet.  This tactic is something I call "stratespamming".  This form of spamming is when you make more of one ship than all other ships, but you still keep your fleet balanced.  Say that your opponent is spamming light frigates.  You may wanna make some more long-range frigates than usual, but not too many more, as your opponent may have another kind of ship waiting to take down that kind of ship.  A balanced fleet will take that strategy down in no time.

5.  It may be wise to put one kind of ship into one fleet, and another kind of ship into another fleet.  For instance, you can have a bomber fleet to take down planets, a long-range fleet for ridding a fleet of light frigates, and a fleet of light frigates to defend against various cruisers.  This tactic plays to your strengths and their weaknesses.

6.  Like I said before, focus your fire.  You don't want to end up with just one frigate auto-attacking a capital ship (though I'm sure the AI is smarter than that).  This allows you to take down each ship one at a time quickly, so that that's one less attacker, one less attacker, and so on.  This allows your fleet to survive more battles.

7.  NO SPAMMING!  I know I said that before, but I just had to emphasize the point.:)

8.  If you wanna use a bunch of timed explosives on a structure, go ahead.  Just don't over-spam the scout frigates, it's a total waste of money if you do.

9.  If you ask me, tactical structures are under-rated.  I don't know why, but when people build them (if they build them at all), they build only two or three.  Do you realize how much power those things have?  They may not be able to move, and they may have a short range, but that's why their TACTICAL structures.  You've gotta use them in ways people wouldn't expect.  For instance, say your opponent brings a fleet with about 70+ frigates, and you've only got 50 frigates.  Theirs a build up of cannons stacked close together.  You can lure your opponent right into these cannons and watch the fireworks.  Suddenly, you're not outnumbered anymore.  You have just basically one that battle.  This tactic is more effective when you do research to increase these turrets' range.

10.  ABSOLUTELY NO SPAMMING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Yes, I know.  Third time.  But some people just don't get it, so I thought maybe that the third time's a charm.:)

11.  Civilian research is the best way to keep your fleet running.  Long-distance jumps, wormholes, refineries, trade ports, artic and volcanic colonization.  All these are ways to make sure your fleet can keep being built upon. 

12.  If you think just building your fleet costs enough, you may wanna hold off on research until you're happy with the size of your fleet.  Which do you think is better, one ship with a 10% damage bonus, or two ships without research.  Do the math yourself, typing this post is enough work.:lol:

Well, I hope you like this post better than my last one.  Thanks for reading.

 

20,793 views 33 replies
Reply #1 Top

By the way, by artic, I meant to type "arctic"

Reply #2 Top

You might want to use the edit-button instead of replying to your own post ^_^

 

Anyway, this guide is way closer to a real guide concerning military strategy than the last one. Why only "closer"? Well, military strategy includes counters, attack strategies, fleet compositions, infomation retrieval and how to use that information against the enemy (i.e. scouting and what to do when certain "signs" are spotted). However, one guide doesn't need to cover all that. This one's far from all-encompassing, but at least it looks pretty solid to me. Whoever reads this should take a look at Ragin Amish's Ship guide and the Strategies/Counters guide as well, though.

 

Still, good work.

Reply #3 Top

I might be wrong, but while starting poor, don't TEC ultimately have the best armour rating (if you get all the research.) I love the complexities of the tech tree, ata glance it looks kinda homogenous, but the more you compare them the more you see the subtle but definite balancing.

Reply #4 Top

Like I said before, focus your fire. You don't want to end up with just one frigate auto-attacking a capital ship (though I'm sure the AI is smarter than that). This allows you to take down each ship one at a time quickly, so that that's one less attacker, one less attacker, and so on. This allows your fleet to survive more battles
End of quote

Good advice most of the time. I'll add though that ther are some instances where letting your ships target by themselves is more beneficial. One I can think of us when you are Vasari and are using Subverters Distortion field against an enemy fleet. You would focus fire on the support cruisers first yes( hoshis and guardians), but after that you'll get more out of the distortion fields ability if you let your fleet attack targets independently of each other.

Another might be if you're attempting to use missile barrage on an enemy fleet of HCs and/or carriers. Spreading out the damage you're dealing will bring more of the enemy units closer to death after Missile Barrage (at which time you can focus fire to your hearts content.). Point is you'll be more likely to kill ships if you spread out your damage in this situation.

 

 

Not trying to bash your thread brainstorm, just adding some things to look out for.

Reply #5 Top

Oh, and something you should probably add.

Having scouts on hand to keep tabs on your opponents and checkout enemy gravwells before you jump into them can be the difference between winning and losing. Intelligence is one of your best weapons, so gather it and use it.

Reply #6 Top

i think this is better than last time but i have a tip.

in normal fleet compositions these days you almost will always have more lrfs than heavy cruisers. my advice is to micro the cruisers on the enemy lrms while your lrms just blast the shit out of the enemy cruisers that way your lrms continue to be numerically superior while the enemy loses cruisers. cruisers will totally slap lrms so for each HC you kill with your lrfs you pretty much just got 3 lrf kills with your cruisers.. its great way to even the odds in a fleet.

Reply #7 Top

A few points/tips I would like to make (rather then pick holes etc...)

TEC hull/armor is the strongest once you get the upgrades. These upgrades help everything - ships, strucutures and ships...

AFAIK, shield mitigation still applied even if the shields are down (that is one that I am not 100% sure on...) The Vassari phase missile tech gives the missile a chance (up to 30% for full research) of skipping this so they do full damage against the hull, not a % due to shield mitigation. Nasty for paper thin advent hulls, not such as issue for TEC hulls with high armor...

scouts are great for 1) scouting, 2) clearing mines (Entrenchment) and 3) killing LRMs (you can build them without any kind of weapons lab)

Lets also talk about SC. Fighters own LRMs and bombers. They also kill other fighters. Bombers kill starbases, capitals and HCs. Flak kill fighters well, but not so good against bombers. So you need some of each in your fleet. Beware someone with 15-20+ bombers as caps will go down quick and a sb won't be too far behind unless you have the fighter coverage to clear them out before they get multiple passes in...

LF are great for killing carriers (they can catch them, and do good damage against them). They suck against LRMs. Get the AM upgrade to impact on building SC and disrupting support cruisers abilities.

Spamming tactical strucutures works against a dumb AI. They are less likely to work against humans. If someone doesn't want to fight me, I just sit the other side of their planet and kill it until they come fight. If I am Vassari in Entrenchment, I build a starbase and beef it up and then let it go visit them. Fleets are mobile, tactical structures are not. Therefore repair and SC are better for light defence of a system then turrets. If you need heavy defence, you need a starbase and/or a fleet. If they add a bonus (such as the advent turrets), then it is worth having a few to apply the bonus to the area you are trying to defend (Ent specific tip)

HCs chew through anything in their path - try and sit your other units behind them to heal them/shoot past them.

Try not to send carriers into a fight - better you can retreat them and allow them to build more SC for free then getting them blown up in the middle of a furball

If you see you cap health getting towards 50% either heal it with support or run it away. 15-20 LRMs can take 2000 HP off a cap before it jumps if you are not near a phase lane... I will gladly lose 5-6 LRMs to kill a cap, esp if mine survives as I can rebuild those ships way easier then you can rebuild your cap... And mine is getting exp, yours will be lvl 1... Note that healing a cap via hoshikos will not be enough to overcome a sizeable LRM/bomber force as they will do more DPS per second then you can heal.

TEC repair structures are by far the best in the game - try and sit under repair cover whereever possible as TEC. Vassari repair ships are the best as long as you know how to use them. They can put back all the hull you lost to a bomber run if you have enough of them, enough AM and they are close enough...

Reply #8 Top

Much better this time.

One important tip is that phase missiles are even deadlier then other weapons when being used to focus fire.

AFAIK, shield mitigation still applied even if the shields are down (that is one that I am not 100% sure on...)
End of quote

I am positive that shield mitigation is still applied even if the shields are down.

Reply #9 Top

I am positive that shield mitigation is still applied even if the shields are down.
End of quote

When you think about it, it does make sense - the shields are still regenerating, it's just that they have been reduced to 0 power. So the effect should still occur... That's what I get when bashing something out on my lunch break with no Sins to check things on :D

Reply #10 Top

Unfortunately, I do not play Entrenchment, so I only some of what your saying.  However, I guess you're right about the turrets.  So, instead of maybe putting all of them  near just one phase lane, here's something I thought about (hehe) the day after typing this faq.  Put 8 turrets around your planet, and the rest should be divided up into groups along each phase lane.  This tactic is extremely useful if your planet is the galactic equivalent of a dead end, where there will only be one phase lane.

Oh, and if the TEC have strong hulls, what is their weakness?

Reply #11 Top

Quoting Ascension, reply 6
i think this is better than last time but i have a tip.

in normal fleet compositions these days you almost will always have more lrfs than heavy cruisers. my advice is to micro the cruisers on the enemy lrms while your lrms just blast the shit out of the enemy cruisers that way your lrms continue to be numerically superior while the enemy loses cruisers. cruisers will totally slap lrms so for each HC you kill with your lrfs you pretty much just got 3 lrf kills with your cruisers.. its great way to even the odds in a fleet.
End of Ascension's quote

That's probably why I always get my butt handed to me on a silver platter.  I never research the HC's (no idea why, I just don't for some reason...)

Reply #12 Top

Quoting Azrak_Navarion, reply 2
You might want to use the edit-button instead of replying to your own post

 

Anyway, this guide is way closer to a real guide concerning military strategy than the last one. Why only "closer"? Well, military strategy includes counters, attack strategies, fleet compositions, infomation retrieval and how to use that information against the enemy (i.e. scouting and what to do when certain "signs" are spotted). However, one guide doesn't need to cover all that. This one's far from all-encompassing, but at least it looks pretty solid to me. Whoever reads this should take a look at Ragin Amish's Ship guide and the Strategies/Counters guide as well, though.

 

Still, good work.
End of Azrak_Navarion's quote

Link, plz?

Reply #13 Top

scouts are great for 1) scouting, 2) clearing mines (Entrenchment) and 3) killing LRMs (you can build them without any kind of weapons lab)
End of quote

by the way, scouts can't take out mines themselves.

Reply #14 Top

by the way, scouts can't take out mines themselves.
End of quote

You said you don't play entrenchment, so you really don't know what you're talking about do you? Yes scouts can take out mines themselves. Not advised to let them do it alone, send some flak frigates with them. But if you think about it any ship can take out mines, just not quite cost effective as you'll lose the ship. Best to go with scouts and a couple of flaks.

And if you're thinking mines = extractors, you're wrong again. Vasari scouts can capture neautral extractors and TEC scouts and set timed explosives to destroy structures.

Does anyone know if timed explosives work on SBs? They should, it'd be a quick way to drop an Orkulus under construction in your grav well.

Reply #15 Top

I mean, their light frigates take up 6 fleet capacity!
End of quote

The Vasari LF takes 7 fleet capacity.  It is the long range frigate that takes 6.

 

 

Reply #16 Top

by the way, scouts can't take out mines themselves.
End of quote

Thanks for correcting me - I think in this case I AM right as I have often done it. You need to be careful with the micro, and having other ships around is definately a help

Reply #17 Top

Quoting Deceiver_0, reply 14

Does anyone know if timed explosives work on SBs? They should, it'd be a quick way to drop an Orkulus under construction in your grav well.
End of Deceiver_0's quote

Although I don't know the answer to your question, I was thinking the exact same thing. I'm working on Advent, and I'm pretty sure there's an ability when a scout expodes that deals damage (called martyrdom). If you make a large fleet of scouts, and just send them on a suicidal mission, it would be an unusual method to take down a starbase. But you'd probably need a guardian to use shield bubble, in order to keep the scouts alive for those critical seconds. It would be kinda funny though, seeing scouts take down a SB. They would be vulnerable to missle barrage, though...

EDIT: Just looked at Amish's post of all the ships, holy shamoly! I thought timed explosives did only a few hundred damage, not 1200! I guess TEC would be better at that, then.

Reply #18 Top

Yeah, you need a ridiculous amount of seeker vessels to do that, even to a virgin starbase. Itd only take 6-7 for scouts.

Reply #19 Top

I once tried to suicide seeker vessel a Marza to death. It didn't work. It was good for the wtf?! factor I got from him though :D.

Reply #20 Top

You guys still haven't answered my question.  What is the TEC's weakness?

Reply #21 Top

Quoting Hack78, reply 16

by the way, scouts can't take out mines themselves.


Thanks for correcting me - I think in this case I AM right as I have often done it. You need to be careful with the micro, and having other ships around is definately a help
End of Hack78's quote

thnx for clearing that up

Reply #22 Top

Quoting Cykur, reply 15

I mean, their light frigates take up 6 fleet capacity!


The Vasari LF takes 7 fleet capacity.  It is the long range frigate that takes 6.

 

 
End of Cykur's quote

sorry, that last one was meant for this quote.

Reply #23 Top

You guys still haven't answered my question. What is the TEC's weakness?
End of quote

 

The closest thing TEC has to a "weakness" is their difficulty in dealing with fleets using Advent Guardian Repulse to throw the Kodiaks around late game.  They don't have many glaring weaknesses, though they are dependent on their repair ships and require a bit more fleet diversity before they can start steam rolling.  This makes them a bit weak very early in the game.  Everyone is going to have a different opinion on this, however.

Reply #24 Top

I've also figured out another one of the Vasari's major weaknesses.  Most of their weapons systems are pretty weak.  Take the Kanrak assailant for example.  Other long ranger frigates have at least two weapons.  The Kanrak, however, only has one torpedo launcher.  It's almost not worth the wait to research their sheild bypassing weaponry.

I've also figured out that flak frigates and their equivalents are kinda under-rated.  Although they don't do so well against LFs, they're devastating against long range frigates.  With 4 cannons (6 for advent) and each one doing more damage than LRF weaponry, and the fact that they have heavy-class armour, they're the perfect solution for an LRF spam (with the same amount of these as other frigates, of course) when you don't feel like waiting all that time to build so many HC's.

I've also figured out another huge strength for the Advent.  Their frigates typically have more weapons systems than frigates from other factions.  For instance, their Illuminator Vessels have not 2, but 3 beams (which is why they're so expensive).  And, the Advent's Defence Vessels have not 4, but 6 beam cannons! (That'll teach your opponent to be so smug with their huge LRF spam:P

Reply #25 Top

Quoting dbrainstorm, reply 24
I've also figured out another one of the Vasari's major weaknesses.  Most of their weapons systems are pretty weak.  Take the Kanrak assailant for example.  Other long ranger frigates have at least two weapons.  The Kanrak, however, only has one torpedo launcher.  It's almost not worth the wait to research their sheild bypassing weaponry.

I've also figured out that flak frigates and their equivalents are kinda under-rated.  Although they don't do so well against LFs, they're devastating against long range frigates.  With 4 cannons (6 for advent) and each one doing more damage than LRF weaponry, and the fact that they have heavy-class armour, they're the perfect solution for an LRF spam (with the same amount of these as other frigates, of course) when you don't feel like waiting all that time to build so many HC's.

I've also figured out another huge strength for the Advent.  Their frigates typically have more weapons systems than frigates from other factions.  For instance, their Illuminator Vessels have not 2, but 3 beams (which is why they're so expensive).  And, the Advent's Defence Vessels have not 4, but 6 beam cannons! (That'll teach your opponent to be so smug with their huge LRF spam
End of dbrainstorm's quote

The dps that is shown on the infocard is all the weapons put together not per cannon. That means that the Advent have weaker weapons then others because they need more guns to get the higher firepower. It does add more flexibility (see Illuminators)