[Suggestion] Unlearning Starbase Upgrades

I'd like to see the same thing for overall fleet capacity... be nice to remove the upkeep if you get beaten back several planets and don't need the slots.

I'd have to agree, both on starbases and fleet command.  However, with the fleet command example it has to be implemented properly so as not to prevent people from selling a fleet upkeep level if they're actually using the capacity it offers.

my thoughts exactly, Darvin3

the starbase idea has my full support the way it is mentioned - the possibility to regain a free slot by effectively removing one of the prior upgrades and getting nothing repaid for it - that seems pretty fair, although you could add a certain amount of benefit, like for example 5 - 10% of the invested resources.

the fleet thing is even more interesting. one might suggest that it is just bad luck if you misplan your strategy, but i think this would be a great benefit to the whole game. (i found myself in this situation many times )

it could be handled in a way that you can only make a step back if you have the full unused capacity normally granted by the fleet upgrade you want to remove .. get the idea?

apart from that, the downgrading of the fleet capacity should be priced.

suggestion: the same amount of resources that it would cost to reach the capacity you are about to remove.

I have suggested something similiar to this before, but this is probably better. I like the fleet supply suggestion as well.

Yeah, good ideas!

This downgrading idea will give the TEC a huge advantage over the Vasari and Advent.  It will give rise to a stale tactic called "Argonov creep" where a powerful TEC player manages to contruct and fully upgrade the starbase in an enemy gravwell.  After victory, the TEC player can downgrade the base and then utilize the tradeports and ship contruction upgrades in order to pump more ships out and pummel the enemy. 

This will make tradeports and frig factories useless for the TEC faction.

excuse me, but i am relatively new to the game.

CoBBQ, i don´t quite get your point (concerning game terms, that is, not your argumentation itself).

why would that favor the TEC? are their starbases so much cheaper than those of the other races? i mean, why wouldn´t vasari and advent be able to employ the same tactic?

from what i´ve learned about the game so far, the TEC have a slight advantage concerning economy. is that what you mean? that they can in case build their starbases earlier and with less overall effort?

I doubt that a Starbase costing around 3k credits, not to mention the resources, (and that's without upgrades) would make tradeports or frigate factories obsolete. TEC are meant to have the strongest econ, and being able to downgrade starbases wouldn't help them any more than it does for the other races. The idea is good, but it would have to be tested, I guess.

I do not see why TEC should have an advantage.

Every race can build basic tradeports in their SB's.

TEC has advanced Trade upgrade

Vasari have Colony Pods

Advent have  Max allegiance boost or extreme culture upgrades if close to the enemy

PS:

And if you manage to set up a fully upgraded Starbase in an enemy grav well without the oponant managing to destroy it before it is fully upgraded, you probably could have taken his planet without the upgrades.

Just so you know, you can already do this.  Simply scuttle the starbase and build a new one.  You'll get 30% of the recources you put into it (50% for Vasari if you researched it). 

This game is designed such that some choices are final (i.e., fleet capacity).  That way, you don't make these choices willy nilly.  For instance, as some point, it's a better choice to research those tier 6 upgrades than to further tax yourself.  This game is all about choices.  If you feel the starbase needs to be reconfigured and you're in a safe situation, scuttling the starbase and building a new one is a reasonable penalty.

Guess nobody ever thought about the big red button on the Argonov.  If you had a fullly upgraded military and in danger of losing the base, downgrade a couple of weapons bays and blow up the enemy fleet as they arrive.

I should have said a late game powerful TEC empire in my earlier post as frig factories and trade ports are easily destroyed by a squad of LRF ships  and/or bombers but the Argonov with a decent fleet and support structures will be hard to take out. 

Put it this way, In a huge fleet battle, it is possible to manage to contruct a Argonov in a enemy gravwell and deck it out with hitpoints and shields, some weapons bays and the big red button in case you lose.  However, you won the battle and you could reduce some of those upgrades and start pumping out more ships when upgraded with ship contructions.

No Navy doesn't mothball ships when there are no wars going on. 

Dr.Gonzo

The discussion about fleet supply has been raging since the beta of the game, back in 2007.  You aren't going to win this argument, trust me.

This may be true, but with big "fleet destroyers" like MB and the big red button, pji's and gravity warheads, disorientation and meteor storm, its too easy to get stuck with no fleet and a crappy income. I'd like some sort of option, maybe not downgrading fleet supply per se, but something to make you a little less completley screwed if you fall into a well placed trap.

Also How, do you get %30 of the construction resources, %30 of construction + constructor cost or %30 of construction + upgrades + constructor cost, cuz scuttling a Starbase that youve sunk 10,000+ credits on weapons and health only to get ~1,000 back seems a bit.. whats the word..  wasteful?

If its wasteful to scuttle, choose your upgrades wisely.   Its like asking to be able to repick cap abilities once choosen or downgrade fleet tax cause you just lost your entire fleet

I like both ideas, but especailly the abilty to "scuttle" SB slots. Why not make SBs even better?

SBs are already strong enough.  Dont need to make then even buffer.

SBs are already strong enough.  Dont need to make then even buffer.

Seriously, why do you need 8 slots on a SB with militiary.  Save a slot or two for econ stuff.  Has anyone ever tried to take out a vasari SB with 3 hull, 2 weapon, 1 reintegration, and 1 frontal shield?  That thing is a beast. All you need is a few flaks gaurding it and it never goes down.  That combo gives you 2 slots for econ later.

And it's 30% of all costs.

I agree, we should be able to unlearn starbase abilities, but however, I moded my starbases to allow them to learn all of the abilities and up all the way

Cool, that definitely makes scuttling the base a viable option, especially if you need some quick cash for fleet contruction.