Mod Idea: Point defense

 

I really like liked the point defense mod for homeworld and I want to get one for sins. My current idea is to create a new class of fighter, called "Missile", and have ships that fire missiles fire the "Missile" fighter instead. There is already a built-in utility for whether or not a weapon can hit a fighter, so all I have to do is set that to true. To compensate for the ability of a ship to destroy missiles short of target, I would greatly increase the range of missiles. For the point defense turrets, I was thinking of taking the turrets from the anti-fighter frigates and putting a few on capital ships and maybe one or two cruisers. I would be afraid of putting point defense turrets on more ships because that could make missiles obsolete. I would give the "Missile" very low hull and give the point defense turret very low damage so as not to make normal fighters and bombers obsolete.

For each ship that had missiles, I would add "x" amount of command points for the number of missiles that they could have at once. "x" could be increased by a new type of research, "Fire Control", and for each level, "x" could be increased a certain percentage. Unfortunately, this would interfere with ships that had both fighters and missiles. To compensate, I would remove all fighters from ships with missiles and replace missiles with another weapon on carriers.

Another idea I had was to make lasers very short-ranged but have them penetrate shields and do 100% damage to hull. Plasma and wave weapons would remain unaffected (shields, then hull).

This mod would most likely have to be for entrenchment.

What are your thoughts?

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Reply #1 Top

I don't know how you would go about doing this, but if you were able to add an ability to a fighter, you could make it detonate on impact...  I don't think you can though so nvm...

So you would basically be devising a new system.  I think I know what you mean, but if not, correct me...

Intelligent Missiles: Launched like fighters and have low hull (ex: 10 hull)-----Why did u mention range?  fighters have unlimited.

Point Defense: Small turrets that could defeat the missiles but would be useless against normal fighters (ex: 3.4 damage points)

New research would determine the ability for not cap/carrier ships to have them.  (Just copy the code from the carrier into them...)  These ships would only have missiles...

 

So, ultimately, what is the point of your defense system?  I am sorry, but I'm not familiar with "Point Defense"

Reply #2 Top

Nice questions; I attempted to answer them sequentually.

There is an ability for the advent LF to basicly kamikaze a target ship. I could give the "Missile" fighter this ability.

Point defense is a concept from science fiction (I am mainly drawing the point defense concept from David Weber's book series "Honorverse" and "Starfire". If you haven't read them, I strongly recommend them) that involves stopping a missile short of target by destroying it with a laser or a counter missile. This defense is necessary because in most sci-fi, missiles greatly outrange energy weapons and any energy weapon armed ship without point defense would be destroyed long before it got within energy range of the missile ship. My point for adding it is that it doesn't make sense for a missile to have only the same or slightly greater range (lrms) than an energy weapon. Missiles ought to have a very large range (say 10,000 units) or have the range of the entire gravity well.I'm quibbling about the range because I am not sure that giving missiles the range of the whole gravity well wouldn't make them too powerful.

The new research would not unlock the missiles--they would come standard. The new research instead would upgrade  how many missiles a ship could have fired in one salvo (a group of missiles fired in close sequence).

The point of the mod is to change the tactics around a little bit, and give a new twist to the game. This mod would change the battle system greatly, and would almost be an "Honorverse" or "Starfire" except for the lack of the ships used in those series.

 

 

 

 

Reply #3 Top

Now that I have thought about it more, I am considering giving missiles the range of the entire gravity well, but stepping the speed of the missile down the further the target is away. So the closer the missile ship is to the target, the faster the missile and less targeting time for the point defense turrets on the targeted ship to react. The longer the range, the slower the missile, and more time for a point defense turret to react.

 

Reply #4 Top

I would have thought the opposite due to acceleration, but all the same, how do you intend to destroy it on collision/give it a range?  If it was a frig, you could just give it a modified kamikaze ability from the advent, but its a fighter so...

Reply #5 Top

There are modding commands, constraints, etc. listed in this post:

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/306405/page/1/#replies

 

These commands would enable me to define an ability that would remove the fighter once it has collided with the target and apply damage.

It is true that the missiles speed should actually be higher if the missile is fired at a greter range but I will have to play with that to make sure it is not to unfair.

Reply #6 Top

I didn't think you could use many on fighters though...  Then again, the last time I tried modding was 1.05 so all those minidumps may have been resolved by increasing modability...

so, basically, you would just have it auto attack and give it a weapon with super short range of like .01 units.  It tries to get in close and then you just see what the distance is and then detonate it...  I don't know what commands you would use, but ok...  Thing is though, it wouldn't be a normal attack as you could redirect it in mid-flight and as you can't just dimension a new variable, I don't know how you would address this...

Reply #7 Top

true. since at the moment, I have sins 1.05, I changed the fighter to a frigate. :)

Reply #8 Top

So that is how you intend to do it?  use the advent kamikaze on these things and then just set the damage?  Now, if only there was some counter variable that could be used for range or you could prevent the user from re-aiming...

Reply #9 Top

IMPORTANT NOTE:

In Entrenchment, STRIKECRAFT (I.E. FIGHTERS!!) CAN HAVE ABILITIES. How do I know this? Well, THE ADVENT HAS A NEW SC TYPE. THE HOMING MINE SQUADRON. The squadron has an ability to deploy as mines. So, while the INDIVIDUAL fighters can't have abilities, the SQUADRON can.

Reply #10 Top

That could possibly give the option of ordering your squads into formations...  The game ORB had some pretty advanced fighter tactics...  If you have a group less than eight, you are in a simple V  If you are in a group less than 21, you are in two V's.  If Less than 41, you are in a giant spinning X and any more than that, the X becomes stationary but bends really far backwards, making aiming really hard to do...

Reply #11 Top

What if you took an idea similar in concept to the Advent mines deployed by their orbital hangars and light carriers? Just change it so that they can be shot down by "normal" weapons... I've managed to pull off building light carriers and having them haul nothing but homing mines, that dart towards enemy ships and explode... perhaops something similar for all three factions' capships, but not "invulnerable" because they're in "phase space" or some such?...

Reply #12 Top

Why wouldn't you fire point defense weapons at anything that came close enough for them to hit if there was nothing better to shoot at? 

Reply #13 Top

True, which is the reason we wanted to have these things as a type of SC...

Reply #14 Top

The problem with SC is reloading.  The missiles wouldn't fire right since one would spawn near the ship, the next part way to the target and another a little later, but all where the first is located at the time.  Look at the carrier frigate spawn ability.  You can set it to spawn more than one at a time.  You control how long they last.  You can change the  movement, toughness, etc. of the frigate that is spawned.  And any gun can be used to take them out.  Which is realistic since main guns that can't shoot anything else are just as capable of killing missiles as regular point defense.  Also, it frees up a weapon slot to be used as counter missiles or secondary guns.

Reply #15 Top

Or, there is always the option of having just one missile per squad.  Have the Martyr ability and the impact would detonate the missile.  And true, normal guns (minus heavy anti-cap cannons) ought to be more than able to fire at SC.  They may not work properly as they can't turn as fast as flak turrets can, but they ought to provide some protection...

 

And what Carrier frigate spawn ability are you talking about?  Replicate Forces?

Reply #16 Top

no, he meant the TEC's Sova Missile Battery ability. Basically the Missile Battery the Sova spawns, and the Siege Cannon the Vasari Vulkoras Desolator can spawn, both spawn a frigate that has NO ENGINES AT ALL. That's all it is. While the Missile Battery and Siege Cannon do have a time to live (I think, will have to check), they probably have a longer TTL than the Replicate Forces ability.

Reply #17 Top

Yes, those two abilities.  By default the frigates that are spawned have a 3 minute TTL but that can be changed.  You can change the engines too so that they go flying around the system.

Reply #18 Top

Hee hee hee! i'm picturing the missile battery/siege cannon zipping around a gravwell, shooting at enemy ships and stations. Wheee! Too funny :P

Reply #19 Top

Not so funny when you have 48 of them flying in towards a ship and each can do 750 points of damage...

But it does look beautiful...

Reply #20 Top

True enough, Still an amusing mental picture tho...