Having had more experience with Sins by now, I stand by my claim that the Kol feels the most like a 'true' battleship. Lots of guns, and JUST. WON'T. DIE. unless you have drained its AM.

I should have clarified back when I made my first post, I said the other ships feel more like Dreadnaughts. I meant they feel more like the Dreadnaughts in the game, i.e. most of their firepower facing forward, as opposed to full 360 arcs of fire.

That's actually true. The Kortul/Radiance do have a majority of their firepower facing forward. The Radiance also has no rear-facing weapons, while the Kortul might (Pulse Beams and all). All three battleships can fire forward/left/right, but the Kol has weapons that stick out ALL AROUND. The Radiance has about half its damage sticking out to each side (it's lasers are its most powerful weapon), while the Kortul has a good amount of damage to the front (Wave Cannons/Phase Missiles) and sides (Pulse Beams).

In all reality, very few ships can ACTUALLY SHOOT BEHIND THEMSELVES. Some examples of ships that CAN are the- Kol, Dunov (it's there, just hard to see), the Sova (REALLY hard to see), the Egg (rear Pulse Beams), and the Revelation (a little difficult to notice). I think that the Advent Rapture might also have rear guns.

i prefer the kol, too. the kortul, as we have noted, is not a true battleship, ie it doesnt dish out shitloads of damage while at the same time soaking up tons and tons of enemy fire. the radiance and the kol are better on both accounts. i'll take the kol because i generally play defensively, and the kol fits that style of gameplay better

actually, the Kortul does dish out quite a bit of damage (READ THE OP MAN!), and can dish out an OBSCENELY high amount with Power Surge.

Volt actually noted that the Kol has the best defense because it can shoot all around itself, the Radiance has the best anti-single-target weapon (Cleansing Brilliance), while the Kortul is built for pure damage dealing.

The Kol has the armor of a true battleship.  Its abilities focus on defense.  Between AFF and FH, this ship just won't die.  Throw in about 6500 hull, 16ish armor, and 2500 shields at level 10, and this is the hardest to kill in the game.  And all the while it is grinding slowly through your fleet.

The Radiance can kill all in its path with a max DPS of 200.  Sure, a Marza has MB and 200 DPS, but the Marza dies easily, the Radiance does not.  Energy Absorbtive Armor is a very powerful tool.  It reduces damage and yields an AM regen.  And then of course CB is also nothing to be scoffed at.  When used properly with malice, you can cause those near the target to receive 250 DPS, those in the beam to receive 750 DPS, and the target to receive 1000 DPS.  Over 8 seconds, that kind of damage will kill all in its path.  That is a total of 2000, 6000, and 8000 damage respectively.  Simply put, don't make the guy with the level 6 Radiance angry.

The Kortul is the Omni-Counter.  Against a fleet: PS, against SC: JW, against frigates: VN, against caps: DS.  These abilities neutralize virtually everything the enemy can throw at you.  Abilities are worthless, frigates are dead, and the caps will soon follow after being hit with 300 DPS.

I'd have to say that because there is such a debate, there's no best; it's all based on your playing style:

Kol:

- Best hp and armor

- Flak bust for anti-fighter defense; gauss gun for single targets

- Finest hour is a really nice ability; considerably raises firepower, rate of fire, and regenerates anti-matter

- Adaptive forcefield for defense

Radiance

- Highest shields, weakest armor

- Animosity useful, as Advent ships tend to be weaker and more fragile

- Detonate anti-matter can be very useful against anything with anti-matter, including other capital ships

- Final ability, Cleansing Brilliance is an awesome ability; very good vs capital ships and any supporting targets nearby

Kortul

- Most weapons are designed to face the front

- Power surge is useful for engaging both enemy fleets and enemy capitals (especially at level 3)

- Disarmament is good for taking out enemy strike craft (keep Sentinnels nearby to support the vessel)

- Disruptive strikes I think is useful in that it slows down cooldown, but not so good for anti-matter depletion (too slow)

- Nanites is also good as a multi-use vessel

All in all, I'm not sure which one is best. If you're talking about who would win at say, level 10 with a pair of bombers, well, I would actually have to lean in favor of the Kortul, although I'd need a test to see. You see, the weapons on the Kortul are forward facing, so that makes it more likely to win.

Could somebody test the following in controlled conditions:

- Kol vs Radiance (both lvl 10)

- Kol vs Kortul (both lvl 10)

- Radiance vs Kortul (both lvl 10)

Btw, if you're actually looking for a pure-combat vessel, maybe the Marza should also be included.

If you're looking for sheer weapons and health... well, you probably should be buying frigates and not capital ships

Although I love the Marza in combat, I've taken to viewing it more like a super-siege frigate, for blowing up planets quickly and keeping up momentum.  I will often fork out a huge sum of money to get level 2 raze planet so I can quickly take an enemy world and keep up my push.

Well, given maxed armor research (yes, I know, that rarely happens) plus the passive armor buff from Energy Absorption will give the Radiance a total armor of 15, equal to the Kol, leaving the Kortul the lowest with 13 (again, with maxed research).

To be honest, I'm starting to think that the Kortul is the most underpowered of the 3 battleships. It has the weakest anti-strikecraft ability, a low DPS, a low armor rating (vs the Kol or an upgraded Radiance), and the final ability is not as good as Finest Hour or Cleansing Brilliance.

Do check this out:

Kortul: 2650 hull base, +115 per level = 3685 at 10.
          1425 shield base, +165 per level = 2910 at 10.

Kol: 3000 hull base, +120 per level = 4080 at 10.
       1250 shield base, +135 per level = 2465 at 10.

Radiance: 2200 hull base, +90 per level = 3010 at 10.
               1750 shield base, +180 per level = 3370 at 10.

Maybe to beef it up:

- Improve armor to the same degree as the Kol (by 1 point) and allow another point of upgradeability

- Double the frontal phase missile rate of fire (keep the damage per shot though)

- Improve the final ability - maybe make both the damage buff and the damage 2000 radius, plus say 300 damage

- Slightly beef up the ability against strike craft. Maybe also cause the ability to cause fighters and bombers to slow down somewhat to make them easier to hit (improve accuracy of the Kortul and supporting friendly vessels)

- Some more gains to hp and shields per experience upgrade, say, +125 hull, +180 shield per level

- If these suggestions make the Kortul overpowered somewhat, push up the price tag a bit

+1 Kodiaks, Crusaders, and Enforcers are a better buy for pure firepower, especially when one looks at the credit:firepower ratio. However, capital ships are interesting in that they on a crystal:firepower ratio, they can actually compete, perhaps even on a metal:firepower/durability ratio as well.

Oh definitely; the only reason it gets used online is for jam weapons, since Vasari really has no other alternatives to deal with swarms of strike craft.  It does this role effectively, but its other abilities just don't stack up to the "great" capital ships like Kol and Radiance. 

As for how to buff it... well, that's a subject of fierce debate.  There's a thread in the general discussion forum about all capital ships in general, including Kortul.  If you haven't already, you should place your comments there. 

The big problem is the crew upgrades.  Those push up the price of any new capital ship (replacing an old one is another story) and make it impractical in most cases.  I will almost always put out the cash to replace a dead capital ship, but choosing to build a new one is a big sacrifice. 

Another issue you overlook is command cost.  Frigates, particularly long range frigates, are very efficient in terms of the performance they give for command slots.  If staying at a reasonable upkeep level is high priority for you, this is another reason to hold off on the capital ships.

I personally like to buy my capital ships early on.  This means there's still militia close to home to kill and level up my capital ships.  You just send them off to clear a planet, send them off to repair and repeat.  Clears worlds with minimal effort and you get a mid-level capital ship out of it.  I know this is a risk militarily and economically, but if it pays off a high level capital ship can really tilt the game.  You have to pick the right one, though otherwise your lovely caps can just become bomber chow.  This is why Kortul/Halcyon/Kol are superb second choice capital ships, because they counter their own hardest counter!

If you ask me, the Radiance is able to counter all the other battleships if one on one.  If you take a level ten Radiance and a level ten Kortol, as far as I know, the Radiance will win.  While the Kortul can deal massive damage with its volatile nanites (as far as I remember. I am more of an Advent guy) Radiance just gives off too much pure firepower.  In the begining, you use all of Radiance's main powers and that takes down the Kortul's shields, then the power output of the Radiance destroys what is left.

((sorry for spelling errors if you find any, but oh well.))

((EDIT)) My post may be a bit late to the show.  Darn!

The Radiance will only get off one shot of CB before its AM is wiped though...

+1 You can only get 2 rounds of Cleansing Brilliance off, then you've got little antimatter. Meanwhile, the effectiveness will be vastly reduced, especially if the Kortul has upgraded the armor.

The detonate antimatter would probably be a better choice, assuming that the Kortul doesn't get to fire off its abilities first, in which case, there's no point.

Either way, the Kortul is way too weak and underpowered a battleship.

I do agree. I suppose it is worth it if you've got a level 10 battleship. In that case, you're in great shape, both in terms of bang for buck, and if you will, bang for supply.

One solution may be to escort your capitals with flak units early on. Any frigates are going to get chewed up by the capitals, and so are heavy cruisers.

No, I'm saying that because its passive, I don't think disruptive strikes is going to be disabled by Det AM.  Besides just use PS before coming in range of Det AM and you will prevent them from using anything other than one shot of CB.  After that, they will be limited to normal weapons as they won't have any AM due to your DS while the Kortul could still power up PS and deal 180 DPS.

My experience is that the Kortul often wins killing other Battleships...it kills the enemy ship's Antimatter, and then it is able to keep running Power Surge which turns the tide of the fight back in the Kortul's favor.  This isn't to say that it is the best Battleship, I think it is probably the least useful, but it is pretty good in long 1v1 fights because of Disruptive Strikes. 

A Radiance might win if it starts the fight with full antimatter, it isn't like I have done controlled testing. 

Then again, Energy Absorption on the Radiance is converting 15% of a Kortul's Pulse Beam/Wave damage into AM, which are the two highest DPS weapons on the Kortul.

The random application of Disruptive Strikes may swing the battle in favour of one or the other (the ability cooldown penalty stacks, even with Inteference on the Skirmisher - its rather satisfying to see crucial enemy support ships suffer a 100% penalty to ability AM cost and 145%/190%/235% penalty to ability cooldown).

Well, over time, odds would favor neither as it is random.  Besides, I would think that DS would wipe way more AM than EAA would give...

Chris, I did a similar spreadsheet comparing durability (or toughness for all Cap Ships).  But included Armor, something you are missing here.  It is my understanding that 1 Amor is essentially equivalent to a 5% boost in hull.  So 2 Armor = +10% hull.  Etc.  Etc. 

Kortul:     Base armor 5.0, +. 0.40 per level = 8.60  (ie +25%, +2%  per level = +43%) at 10
Kol:         Base armor 5.0, +. 0.45 per level = 9.05  (ie +25%, +2.25% per level = +45.25%) at 10
Radiance: Base armor 4.5, +. 0.40 per level = 8.10  (ie +22.5%, +2%  per level = +40.5%) at 10

 

The following table combines each element, to give a simple total for easy comparison.  The Kol is easily the toughest, at all levels.

                                                    Level One                          Level Ten 
                                                Hull+Arm   +Shld=Total        Hull+Arm  +Shld=Totl

Vasari (Kortul Devastator)           3313           4738                   5510          8585
TEC     (Kol Battleship)                3750           5000                   6195          8795 
Advent (Radiance Battleship)       2695           4445                   4418          7968 

Darvin, I agree completely.  Maybe this is the area that needs to be tweaked to lower capital ship costs.

Leveling up can be difficult.  I think they should buff durability increments for each level somehow, to help increase surviveability of higher level Cap Ships (i.e.: buff something in the above [prior post]).

Don't forget the bonus armor from Energy Absorbtion on the level 10 Radiance.  Still, the total stats does not indicate which ship is tougher...it depends on the situation.  The Kol is certainly the toughest when you are dealing with multiple ships trying to kill it.  The Kortul is extremely tough 1v1 because of Disruptive Strikes, as is the Radiance 1v1 because of Detonate Antimatter, with the exception that the passive Kortul can negate the Radiance's antimatter too.

Ok, Yeah, I agree.  I should have said: The Kol has the highest total Hull+Armor+Sheild, rather than the "toughest", at all levels.  And I'll concede that stats-wise, they are all roughly comparable at level 10, not one "easily" ahead.  (And, as I mention at the link, shields regenerate faster than hull, so this is another unseen component).

Energy Absorbtive Armor adds 1, 2, & 3 armor.  Thus add 3 armor, or +15% hull to a level 10 Radiance.   So its total armor would be 11.10 or +55.5% hull at level 10.  That would make its total stats quite comparable to the Kol. 

But then we would need to consider the effect of the Kol's Adaptive Forcefeild, which further complicates things, and tips the scales back toward the Kol in total 'toughness'.  Not to mention the Kol's Finest Hour hull repair rate of 10/sec for 60 seconds (600 Hull).  AND, lest we forget the Kortul, Power Surge's extra shield regeneration rate is also a factor.  So yeah, "it depends on the situation".

Heavy cruisers and long range frigates tear up capital ships.  Certainly if you don't have enough of them it won't work, but a sufficient force of these powerful units will rip most capital ships to shreds.  Flaks still are a great escourt, but a balanced army is always your best tool. 

Unless capital ships get some other buff that makes them stronger or more affordable, I think it's very reasonable to lower the cost of crew upgrades.  They require a lot of planning and are so easy to screw up.  I had the misfortune earlier today of buying a crew upgrade, but having to nix plans for my capital ship because I needed frigates.  The huge amount of capital (no pun intended) required to get a new capital ship operational just makes it so prohibitive and risky.  On the other hand, I think capital ships are one of those things you can't buff too much otherwise they'll become the center of attention, and getting them early on when militia are plentiful may become too strong if this is buffed too much.  I actually ended up getting that capital ship out fairly early, and ended up winning because I got both of them to level 6, enabling me to easily win otherwise equal fleet battles, so despite my error in judgment it did pay off anyways.