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FS_Archduke
FS_Archduke
Join Date 07/2008
0

Request: Licensing & Sales information

Regarding purchase, sale/distribution and licensiing of product [Solved - thank you Stardock Support]

July 11, 2009 10:18:45 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Hi I have a few issues with some of the documentation and notices regarding SoaSE that I don't quite understand and would appreciate some clarification if anyone can reply on behalf of Kalypso, Thanks.

 

Firstly, the FAQ on this website states that:

"A free subscription to Ironclad Online is included with the purchase of Sins of a Solar Empire." What exactly is meant by  'purchase of Sins of a Solar Empire'?

If one were to purchase the 'retail box package' from an official, legitimate retail outlet, in exchange for cash, should they be entitled to this free subscription?

The License Agreement for the software states "The Software is being licensed to you and you hereby acknowledge that no title or ownership in the Software is being transferred or assigned and this Agreement should not be construed as a sale of any rights in the Software. "

Which clearly contradicts any possiblility of legitimately purchasing the software itself.

Also, the agreement clearly expresses that the licensee agrees NOT to:

"(a) Commercially exploit the Software;"

( Distribute, lease, license, sell, rent or otherwise transfer or assign this Software, or any copies of this Software, without the express prior written consent of LICENSOR

I am curious as to how this is enforced in the light of the Licensors being made aware of individuals breaking this agreement at the risk of a possible £100 000 fine?

Another quote from the licensing agreement states: "This Agreement will terminate automatically if you fail to comply with its terms and conditions. In such event, you must destroy all copies of the Software and all of its component parts. You can also end this Agreement by destroying the Software and all copies and reproductions of the Software and deleting and permanently purging the Software from any client server or computer on which it has been installed. "

Does this mean that if a licensee no longer wished to be bound by the agreement, they must 'destroy' the software? How are the licensors aware of such terminations and how would one go about re-licensing once the software is destroyed?

It is also unclear as to what happens when a licensee is no longer in possession of the original software. How are they able to destroy it if they do not possess it?

Finally, the agreement mentions also, the licensee agrees that they "must run the Software from the included DVD/CD-ROM"

This would make the download versions somewhat redundant I believe. Though, that point aside, if a licensee no longer had access to the software DVD/CD-ROM, they would no longer be able to play the game ('run the software') and in that case, if they then legitimately obtained another CD/DVD ROM of the software, then they may use that under their license agreement? What then have they paid for in obtaining the new CD/DVD-ROM, and if the costs are for the CD/DVD-ROM then wouldn't that indicate the license carries no charge?

If on the otrher hand, that cost includes another license, what if the 2nd license is not accepted? If the user is then not bound by this secondary license, its terms and conditions need not apply?

 

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FS_Archduke
psychoak
Join Date 07/2007
+226
Reply #1 July 11, 2009 3:56:06 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

The joys of bullshit.  Basically, even the software companies think they're selling the software when they write out the legally void licenses.  It's just a bunch of nonsense if you're not planning on doing something already illegal.

 

Just ignore it and use the product.

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FS_Archduke
Nuttygamer
Join Date 12/2008
+34
Reply #2 July 11, 2009 4:05:45 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Wow FS, I don't even bother to think about these stuff. And you acutally read the EULA wow I am impress. And as for disagree with the agreement, does any one do that?! I usually just press Agree without reading it.

And what does this is have to do with technical issues of the game? technical meaning computer problems or game problems not problems with licensing agreements.

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FS_Archduke
FS_Archduke
Join Date 07/2008
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Reply #3 July 11, 2009 6:20:03 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

It's never good to ignore the content of contractual agreements. You'd be suprised what you can find yourself agreeing to and it can be, if you don't mind me suggesting, unwise not to read what you are accepting.

The very nature of a tendency to sell licenses rather than disks is an attempt to curb efforts of piracy, illegal copying /distribution of product and so on. Unfortunately, it has some detrimental effect regarding the statuory rights of an individual when you consider a case similar to the one I find myself in.

Currently, I cannot 'just use the product' because the retail box version I have from a legitimate retail outlet had apparently already been licensed to another, or so I discovered when I installed it.

The outlet claim that because it's been over two weeks since I got the disk, it's not their problem. Stardock support insist that I can only run the game if I pay a sum to obtain another license, and as yet, Kalypso have been non-forthcoming. I have no idea who the original licensee is or why they should require to maintain a valid license if they do not possess the CD/DVD-ROM.

It's confusing too find that I had to agree and accept said license agreement, before I was informed that the license was in fact already registered to another party.

I apologise if this is the wrong forum section for such a topic, there didn't seem to be a 'Legal' section, and I just figured it was the best place, seeing as it is at least, relating to a technicality of the documentation, if not specifically technical in its context.

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FS_Archduke
Hack78
Join Date 04/2008
+50
Reply #4 July 11, 2009 9:30:03 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

What is means is that when you buy the game (either directly via Impulse or with an UNUSED serial (cd) key), you can create an ICO account which is what is used to setup the multiplayer games.

What the rest of it means is that you can NEVER sell the game to someone else and expect them to be able to play via ICO as you have already used the serial number associated with that license...

They are then saying if you break these terms, or wish to end them, you need to destroy all software including installs, physical media etc...

You would re-license by purchasing a new copy which grants you a new license to play SoaSE.

The problem YOU have is SOMEONE ELSE broke the EULA. By selling the box to the store as second hand once they had used the key (or even just returning it), they have secure the serial number which cannot be transferred and the stardock servers know the serial has been used. Because Impulse allows you to do a full install from the internet, this other person can return the disk and still have full use of the game - hence the no transfer clause is required.

You need to go back to the store and find out if the box you were given was second hand or returned. If it is either of these conditions, demand a new copy as THEY have sold something in breach of the game license and you have not brought what you paid for - a license to play the game - they have only given you the box and manual...

If that fails, contact Stardock directly and see what they can do. Maybe nothing if it is brought in a Kalypso distributed region, but it won't hurt. There are stories of people being given a new serial number when sending in proof of purchase...

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FS_Archduke
FS_Archduke
Join Date 07/2008
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Reply #5 July 14, 2009 11:10:35 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

What the rest of it means is that you can NEVER sell the game to someone else and expect them to be able to play via ICO as you have already used the serial number associated with that license...

They are then saying if you break these terms, or wish to end them, you need to destroy all software including installs, physical media etc...

You would re-license by purchasing a new copy which grants you a new license to play SoaSE.

The problem YOU have is SOMEONE ELSE broke the EULA. By selling the box to the store as second hand once they had used the key (or even just returning it), they have secure the serial number which cannot be transferred and the stardock servers know the serial has been used. Because Impulse allows you to do a full install from the internet, this other person can return the disk and still have full use of the game - hence the no transfer clause is required.

 

I am aware of that. However, the discrepency and difficulty comes in to play because Stardock support claim that the license is valid and registered to someone else, so clearly the license has not been voided as per their terms and conditions. I returned once again to the point of sale, but they simply claimed not to have any record of my transaction. (Unfortunately, I didn't keep the receipt )

There are stories of people being given a new serial number when sending in proof of purchase...

As I don't possess my receipt, I have little in the way of 'proof of purchase', save for the actual box etc. However, could you provide evidence for these stories or if possible, the circumstance surrounding them?

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FS_Archduke
Hack78
Join Date 04/2008
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Reply #6 July 14, 2009 8:57:35 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Send your story and a scan of the receipt to stardock. At this point in time, talking to them/kalypso is your only hope unless you take the store to small claims or something...

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