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Dragon Age: Origins

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Dragon Age: Origins

from Elemental Forums

-Anyone else excited about this game? As someone who spent way too much time with the bauldars gate games back in the day, to see them come out with a "spiritual" successor is pretty exciting. I'm interested in the whole "playing through your characters origin story" as a game mechanic. I hope the game has deep character development, and isn't just focused on the story...though the story does look impressive. I'm a big fan of other BioWare games like the Kotor games, but again, those were more focused on the story than character development.

325,519 views 152 replies
Reply #76 from Demigod Forums Top

i agree that moddability is important to the longevity of a game and that games like NWN and Morrowind were a leap forward in this regard.  However, I agree with others that the single-player campaign in NWN was "weak," "very weak," "average," or whatever adjective you want to use.  Personally, I would call it unimaginative rubbish. It was very predictable, the story was mediocre, the AI henchmen was prone to suicidal behavior, and character development (looking at you, Aribeth) was atrocious.  The single-player campaign just did not measure up to the high standards set by Bioware with its Baldur's Gate series and Knights of the Old Republic.  In fact, I was so turned off by the NWN single-player campaign that I didn't bother with the expansions or the player-made mods.  I just stuck with Morrowind.  And before anyone attacks me for having a personal opinion about my own gaming experience, please save it.

In any event, I have big hopes for Dragon Age.  If Bioware can tell an epic story, produce great characters and parties, allow for a lot of customization, and offer a strong modding system, then that's good enough for me.

 

Reply #77 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting NTJedi, reply 75

By that statement even patches should not measure a games quality because they too come from the internet.  Any games quality is measured by what's provided from the whole package.  Just because someone has to connect with the internet to pickup a game patch or a game module doesn't mean it should be ignored.   
End of NTJedi's quote

Except for MMORPGs that are neary assumed to come out in "beta" status, if a game comes with bugs, it gets hammered by reviews (you have the recent Demigod example with multiplayer). It doesn't matter it gets great after several patches, the damage to the game for the general opinion is already done.

Also, there's a big difference in patches and mods (comparing them is like comparing apples and oranges): usually patches are applied automatically for the game, that's something a non-technical person can do, while mods have to be searched, downloaded and installed.

Quoting NTJedi, reply 75

As we can see DeCypher recently posted he found the NWN singleplayer campaigns far better than Baldurs Gate and Torment... so as stated earlier it's your opinion.
End of NTJedi's quote

Of course, the world is full of opinions, but there's a general consensus by RPG players that BG/Torment are better RPGs than NWN (even if Torment was a comercial disaster). Some people may disagree, but that always happens.

And if you don't like it, search for NWN 2 interviews, they say most times that their objective is to have a deeper/better/whatever story in single player, that speaks volumes. It also speaks volumes that DA:O is considered by Bioware the spiritual succesor to Baldurs Gate, and not to NWN.

Quoting NTJedi, reply 75
One other correction is that years to come BG2 and Torment will be remembered while with NWN it won't only be remembered, but many people will still be playing NWN because of the endless replay value from content online.
End of NTJedi's quote

Your bet. BG2 and Torment are classics, people will keep playing them for a long time. I don't think that will happen with NWN.

Offworld Trading Company
Reply #78 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting NTJedi, reply 75
The NWN has been so successfull Bioware released 3 different expansion packs plus several premium modules.
End of NTJedi's quote

 

They released two expansions, not 3.

 

This is a silly argument, IMO. NWN is a great game, yes, and the design of it, where you can get basically unlimited community content and new adventures is what's kept it going. And it's the game that I've spent the most hours on by far. But (IMO) the story doesn't hold a candle to the BG series.

Reply #79 from Elemental Forums Top


Except for MMORPGs that are neary assumed to come out in "beta" status, if a game comes with bugs, it gets hammered by reviews (you have the recent Demigod example with multiplayer). It doesn't matter it gets great after several patches, the damage to the game for the general opinion is already done.
End of quote

The games initial release is important, but game patches play a huge role because all games have major bugs causing not only crashes, but even permanently stuck where the only way out is starting over.  The quality of patches not only improve stability, but some even add game content.



Also, there's a big difference in patches and mods (comparing them is like comparing apples and oranges): usually patches are applied automatically for the game, that's something a non-technical person can do, while mods have to be searched, downloaded and installed.
End of quote

patches applied automatically??  Only if you're buying a game several months or years after it's release!  For patches players need to visit the official website; download the game patch then install the game patch and periodically checks the forums to verify the new patch doesn't bring any new issues.   For game mods the player visits the official forums for reviews; download the game mod then installs the game mod and periodically checks the forums for any related issues.  Both of the processes are virtually identical.



Of course, the world is full of opinions, but there's a general consensus by RPG players that BG/Torment are better RPGs than NWN (even if Torment was a comercial disaster). Some people may disagree, but that always happens.
End of quote

That's nothing but an opinion with no evidence for support. 


And if you don't like it, search for NWN 2 interviews, they say most times that their objective is to have a deeper/better/whatever story in single player, that speaks volumes. It also speaks volumes that DA:O is considered by Bioware the spiritual succesor to Baldurs Gate, and not to NWN.
End of quote

I never said the NWN singleplayer was better than Baldurs Gate, only it has greater replay value.  Of course if I could only play one RPG game for three times then it would be BaldursGate2.  However anyone who could only play one RPG game for the rest of their life would choose Neverwinter Nights because of the unlimited replay value.  Heck given most of us will be around for another 20+ years I tend to be more pleased with a game which provides endless replay value as compared with a one_time fixed world.





Your bet. BG2 and Torment are classics, people will keep playing them for a long time. I don't think that will happen with NWN.
End of quote

  Compare the forum activity for Neverwinter Nights against BG2 or Torment and neither even comes close.  It's the endless replay value within Neverwinter Nights which will keep it going for a long long time.  I seriously wish the BG2 provided an editor  OR  a random game generator because then it would replay value beyond its fixed world where all the quests, towns, traps, bosses, NPCs, etc, are all the same.

 

Reply #80 from Elemental Forums Top


They released two expansions, not 3.
End of quote

3  expansions:   Shadows of Undrentide; Hordes of the Underdark; and  KingMaker   (each has a box)
 


This is a silly argument, IMO. NWN is a great game, yes, and the design of it, where you can get basically unlimited community content and new adventures is what's kept it going. And it's the game that I've spent the most hours on by far. But (IMO) the story doesn't hold a candle to the BG series.

End of quote

I agree.

Reply #81 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting Coelocanth, reply 78



Quoting NTJedi,
reply 75
The NWN has been so successfull Bioware released 3 different expansion packs plus several premium modules.


 

They released two expansions, not 3.

 

This is a silly argument, IMO. NWN is a great game, yes, and the design of it, where you can get basically unlimited community content and new adventures is what's kept it going. And it's the game that I've spent the most hours on by far. But (IMO) the story doesn't hold a candle to the BG series.
End of Coelocanth's quote

 

I remember when they were having the writer's strike, while I was out of the country actually, and the gaming industry, in general, sort of shrugged saying if they employed writers at all, it wasn't that big of a deal. I think that some of these games could seriously use some quality writing. I don't see why so many developers skimp on this part. I hate following a story only to groan at the next badly written line of dialogue, or the incredible predictable nature a lot of game stories have, if they have a story at all.

Reply #82 from Sins Forums Top

2 expansions. The Kingmaker box contains the Premium Modules Kingmaker, Shadowguard, and Witch's Wake (the same three Premium Modules that are incldued in the Diamond Edition of NWN). They are not expansions.

Reply #83 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Coelocanth, reply 82
2 expansions. The Kingmaker box contains the Premium Modules Kingmaker, Shadowguard, and Witch's Wake (the same three Premium Modules that are incldued in the Diamond Edition of NWN). They are not expansions.
End of Coelocanth's quote

It's currently being sold as a premium module by Bioware, but considering Kingmaker provides not only the modules, but due to the "new features" Kingmaker expands on the original game.  New features include easier ways to move between locations, contains new sub-races and gives access to henchmen inventories.  This release was more geared towards pleasing the singleplayer gamer and amazon has it available for those interested in the box collection:

http://www.amazon.com/Neverwinter-Nights-Kingmaker-Expansion-Pack-Pc/dp/B000B8P8RG/ref=pd_bxgy_vg_img_a

 

Reply #84 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting NTJedi, reply 79

The games initial release is important, but game patches play a huge role because all games have major bugs causing not only crashes, but even permanently stuck where the only way out is starting over.  The quality of patches not only improve stability, but some even add game content.
End of NTJedi's quote

It's more than important. BG2 can be played without a single patch and we should encourage games that can be played without patches (like any other software).

Quoting NTJedi, reply 79

patches applied automatically??  Only if you're buying a game several months or years after it's release!  For patches players need to visit the official website; download the game patch then install the game patch and periodically checks the forums to verify the new patch doesn't bring any new issues.   For game mods the player visits the official forums for reviews; download the game mod then installs the game mod and periodically checks the forums for any related issues.  Both of the processes are virtually identical.
End of NTJedi's quote

Ok, BG2 or Torment don't autopatch, but autopatching is pretty common nowadays while automodding is not. Probably Elemental is going to be one of the first games that tries to integrate mods tighly in the game. That's why you can't compare patches and mods for normal users. Even if you have to do the same work, there's only one official patch, while there are lots of mods and it takes far more effort to know which mods are active, stable, working, etc (your "review" part, that makes both  processes really different, not "virtually identical").

Quoting NTJedi, reply 79

That's nothing but an opinion with no evidence for support. 
End of NTJedi's quote

There's plenty of evidence supporting BG2 is a better RPG than NWN. Both pieces of software have earned a lot of honors, but BG2 has got them because of its game elements and NWN because of its tool elements (not game related). It's also far common to find reviews or comments saying NWN RPG elements were average/weak/whatever while that's far stranger in BG2. So no, it's not an oppinion.

Quoting NTJedi, reply 79

I never said the NWN singleplayer was better than Baldurs Gate, only it has greater replay value.  Of course if I could only play one RPG game for three times then it would be BaldursGate2.  However anyone who could only play one RPG game for the rest of their life would choose Neverwinter Nights because of the unlimited replay value.  Heck given most of us will be around for another 20+ years I tend to be more pleased with a game which provides endless replay value as compared with a one_time fixed world.
End of NTJedi's quote

The "if I only could play one game" it's an impossible situation, so it lacks any value. You have chosen the situation that will give you the result you want to hear. Let's do it the other way: if you could only carry the BG2 or NWN box to a desert island with a computer without internet connection or any way of getting data and you know nothing about programing (and for example, you are a spanish guy and you don't know english), which game would you carry? BG2. See? Another totally unreal situation that gives me the result I want to hear.

Reply #85 from Stardock Forums Top

The term "better" is completely subjective. I don't think its necessary to try and prove which game is better than another, nor do I think it's useful to anyone.

I do agree with Vincente in that games should be released in more finished states than they are now. I don't know what happened to the industry, as a whole, to make them think its okay to push out unfinished products just because they can patch them later. When I got NWN as a gift from my sister, it was unplayable, unplayable right out of the box. I had to wait hours to download a patch as I was not on broadband at the time. Completely unacceptable.

Reply #86 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting NTJedi, reply 83

Quoting Coelocanth, reply 822 expansions. The Kingmaker box contains the Premium Modules Kingmaker, Shadowguard, and Witch's Wake (the same three Premium Modules that are incldued in the Diamond Edition of NWN). They are not expansions.

It's currently being sold as a premium module by Bioware, but considering Kingmaker provides not only the modules, but due to the "new features" Kingmaker expands on the original game.  New features include easier ways to move between locations, contains new sub-races and gives access to henchmen inventories.  This release was more geared towards pleasing the singleplayer gamer and amazon has it available for those interested in the box collection:

http://www.amazon.com/Neverwinter-Nights-Kingmaker-Expansion-Pack-Pc/dp/B000B8P8RG/ref=pd_bxgy_vg_img_a

 
End of NTJedi's quote

Okay, this is getting to be a ridiculous argument of semantics as well, so I'll just say this: There are only 2 expansions for NWN1. Kingmaker is NOT an expansion. You do not need to have Kingmaker installed in order to play on a server that's hosting the NWN1 game, even if the host has Kingmaker installed on his system. All you need is the same patch version. But you CANNOT play on a server that has SoU and/or HotU (the 2 expansions for NWN) installed unless you have them as well. They are expansions. Kingmaker is not.

It doesn't matter what Amazon calls it, Kingmaker is not an expansion pack.

Reply #87 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting NTJedi, reply 72

Quoting Bingjack, reply 69

I only said  the single player RPG of NWN was "weak", not "very weak".

I would never exaggerate like that    But like I said, discussion over.  opinions vary.


Actually within Reply #57 you're exact words, "NWN was certainly driven by its multiplayer, as the single player game was very weak." 
End of NTJedi's quote

 

All right, you got me. You are correct...the NWN single player RPG was "very weak". 

 

Between the tepid gameplay, dull storyline, and lack of any meaningful NPC interaction, I was bored to tears, and dont think I ever played more than 2/3 through it. 

 

Had a lot of fun with the toolset though, and playing with my friends in multiplayer, where the game shone much more brightly.  Great game...just not a very good rpg.

Reply #89 from Elemental Forums Top

This the game where the PC version was ready a few months ago, but the PC release got delayed so it could go out at the same time as the console versions.

I love most of their games. I think I am beginning to dislike the company.

Reply #90 from Sins Forums Top

Looking forward to it, as it seems they're taking the bold path and are not afraid to show the grittier side of a fantasy world. I'm also looking forward to trying my hand at making some quality adventuring content...

Aside from that, Planescape:Torment had and still has the best damned story I ever saw in a CRPG. Period. NWN doesn't even come close. And I'm talking purely from a creative writing standpoint. Setting is partly responsible for that, you just can't beat the Planescape setting since it practically allows for anything... compared to that, Abeir-Toril is pretty limited.

Reply #92 from Elemental Forums Top

Theres an update at ign for Dragon Age. Also a bunch of new videos including character creation...click on one of the videos and you will see the other ones on the right side...

http://pc.ign.com/articles/101/1012687p1.html

 

Man... I really can't wait to get this game on the pc...

Reply #93 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

The delay is most probably due to EA trying to pull another DRM stunt. MUHAHAHAHAHA...!!! }:) ;P

Reply #94 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Star, reply 93
The delay is most probably due to EA trying to pull another DRM stunt. MUHAHAHAHAHA...!!!
End of Star's quote

That is exactly what I thought as well as to make sure the console market is not undercut by people who own both platforms choosing to get the PC version over it and there is also the pirate PC version vs console issue to consider.

Reply #95 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Spartan, reply 94
That is exactly what I thought as well as to make sure the console market is not undercut by people who own both platforms choosing to get the PC version over it and there is also the pirate PC version vs console issue to consider.
End of Spartan's quote

I think that the problem is the PS3 version as I found this on the forums.

Dragon Age: Origins will be released on November 3rd in North America and November 6th in Europe on the Xbox 360® videogame entertainment system and PC. The PLAYSTATION®3 version will follow later in November
End of quote

Edited into the first post of this thread by a Bioware employee.

Note that the PS3 doesn't even have a release date.

Reply #96 from Sins Forums Top

Heh, again they go with a staggered release. Those three days are going to cost them, since a pirate version is almost sure to hit the net as soon as the game is released in America. One more temptation for all those folks who'd like to buy the game, but can't because "the product is not available for your country".

 

Reply #98 from Elemental Forums Top

From this thread in the Dragon Age forums:

As an added bonus, Dragon Age: Origins (both original and Collector’s Edition) includes two special pieces of downloadable content: The Stone Prisoner, as well as a suit of Dragon Age themed armor that can be used in Dragon Age: Origins as well as in the upcoming BioWare Shooter RPG, Mass Effect™ 2 on all available platforms.

With The Stone Prisoner download pack, players will have access to Shale, the mighty stone golem who can become one of the most powerful party members in the game, and comes with its own personal back-story and unique quests for the player to discover. The Stone Prisoner will also include new environments, items and hours of additional gameplay, further deepening the epic Dragon Age experience. The Stone Prisoner is available to original purchasers of new copies of Dragon Age: Origins at no additional cost. The Stone Prisoner can also be purchased separately for $15.
End of quote

This is probably one of the first smart moves I have seen EA pull.  By giving the orginal purchaser a code to unlock content on an account, they get something a second hand purchaser wouldn't.  Given that used copies of newly released games are usually only $5 or so less, it would cost more to buy a used copy and the content.

EA gets money from used game purchasers or gets them to buy a new game at no cost to those who buy new in the first place(plus they probably think it will help stop pirates or get some money from them).

Also from the same thread(page 6):

The Blood Dragon armor and Stone Prisoner DLC is included in the regular and Collector's Edition.

Inside the box itself will be a card which will contain the code to download the armor and SP. In the case of the CE, there is an additional code for the 3 exclusive CE items. The codes are one-time use only.

Specifically with the Blood Dragon armor - the one code will give you that DLC on DA:O, and it'll be waiting for you on any platform in ME2.

With all the DLC (armor, Stone Prisoner, pre-order item: Memory Band, and retailer exclusive items - of which I believe there are 5 different items 'out there'), these are keyed to your online account. As such, if you uninstall/re-install DA:O later, you just need to login with the same account and it'll all be waiting for you there to re-download at your leisure.

For ME2, you just login with the same account and the armor will be available for you to download.
End of quote

On page 7 in regards to the account used for content:

This will be the new BioWare account system (and social site) that we are working on. We'll have moe details on it in the future.
End of quote

I am glad EA seems to be keeping their hands off Dragon Age for the most part.  My main concern now is that EA will bump up the price of future DLC(or pull more shit with the PC release date so they can launch it at the same time as the consoles).

Reply #99 from Elemental Forums Top

New article and more videos too now at ign.

 

http://pc.ign.com/articles/101/1014618p1.html

 

Also I don't know why but if you look at the 360 version on ign it has its own video about one other character you can have in your party.

Reply #100 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting NTJedi, reply 75

As we can see DeCypher recently posted he found the NWN singleplayer campaigns far better than Baldurs Gate and Torment... so as stated earlier it's your opinion.
End of NTJedi's quote

Um, maybe I'm a bit late with this, but I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic.