Unfair: Point Blank

I tried it and won, second try.  With QuickStart (Entrenchment), but no SB. 

Vasari Egg, w/Nano Bomb, 1 Mil Lab, tech Assailants, 6 scouts to his homeworld, get 2 constructors, then follow his colony ship to roid, let him colonize but kill constructor(s) and colonizer befor he builds extractors.   Just spam Assailants (after the scouts), raising fleet as needed, to kill his LFs, Frig Factory, new constructors, then Cap Ship Factory.

The Advent opponent started with a Radiance, then another, and finally a Mothership before I killed the Cap Factory.  Then it was over, he couldn't build anything else.  Just cleaned up then.

Hmm...  Alright...  Thank you...

That has to be the quickest answer I have ever received...

I used repair bays.  I rush with my capital ship, then retreat back to my own home.  The enemy follows me.  By this point I have my asteroid colonized (just send a few LF to clear it) and long range frigates.  Along with my repair bays, I proceed to decimate his forces.  With the experience and military advantage from this stand at my repair bays, I can proceed to attack his homeworld.  If things get dicey I retreat and he'll repeat the process.

why would logic say no?  just do what logic says: build what you can until you can do better.

don't make fleets of lrfs especially on small maps because you simply don't have the time.  the computer is doing what is logical, using small simple units, aka cobalts, because they are cheap and fast to use when nothing else is available.  you would spend to much money and time making  better units when you already have frigates to fight with.  just do what the AI is doing, except add more strategy to it

Absolutely not.  Against a player I'd agree with you, because he'll just counter your LRF with scouts.  Against a computer, those LRF are going to be well worth the investment.  Not to mention repair bays are a godsend.  Advent maybe might have trouble getting those three labs, but TEC and Vasari should definitely get their LRF on the field asap and only build light frigates to capture their roid.

You will certainly not beat an unfair using LF on LF since they get an absolutely crazy resource bonus.  I find the only way to beat them on small maps is a combination of pressure and a defensive line of repair bays while building up LRF.

50% of my pointblank matches vs AI I would cobalt/disciple rush. Other 50 I go for LRFs.

Really?  I couldn't imagine playing point blank without repair bays, which means you have the prerequisite for assailants as Vasari and you're only 1 lab away from LRM's and illums as TEC and Advent.  So, from my perspective, there's no reason not to get them against the AI.

I agree with Darvin on this one, Sova Rush with repair bays allows you to trash the computers economy, and then it is only a matter of time. I almost never get to the ice planet. Also LRMs were the main component of my final assult, though LFs certianly played a much more important role than usual in the beginning.

NO, you can't do that, and win!  Because: The Unfair (& Hard) AI CHEATS.  An Unfair can build 2 for every 1 of yours!  In other words, I too, can't see going LF vs LF, and winning!?  You need the superior counter: LRF vs LF.

Unfair get 2 times our income, crystal & metal from their planets!  (Hard gets 1.5X). If you don't believe me, just look at the "Credits gained from Planet Income" chart, and compare your income to his.  Or the metal/crystal "gained from" charts (3rd one down).

I don't know if it could be beat without QuickStart?  The same scenario - an Unfair, on Point Blank, but no QuickStart.  It (the AI) might get too much of a headstart, by the time you can start attacking.

Admittedly in the long run anyone who did take the ice planets would be the winner, but you're unlikely to survive after shelling out the cash (and logistics!) for two civic labs.  A better investment would be trying to snatch the enemy's asteroid out from under them. 

Well, seeing as how I don't have entrenchment, I don't use quickstart...

Offtopic maybe, but i suggest trying a 8 way ffa with yourself and 7 unfair AI on Grindstone, its very fun.

You guys fail because you fight LFs with LFs, I kill the firgate factory.

Ok, I tried it using only LFs and going after the factories.  It worked!  AND...  I tryed this in vanilla Sins, with no QuickStart, and I won, easily!

6 Scouts after constructors, then spam LFs to kill his Factories.  Don't try to colonize your roid.  Don't even build a Cap Ship factory!  Or a lab!  Until later, when you 'might' want to fleet higher.  I did it one time without even fleeting up!  Just 'ATTACK'!

Astax you're right.  I was surprised.

Now that makes sense.

Speaking of Point blank i once play a online game vs a human on it. My start was terible. He scout/cobat rush me and stoped my devopment (though i got one lab up). I was loseing my asslents to the scouts and the cobats lived to chase My egg out of my HW grav well but as he tryed to take down my HW Two things saved me. One pirates. They force him to look at his HW and two I got both roids with reparbays, labs and factorys. So when his Lrm fleet came to them was an even fight. He got way over exend to finsh me and it was too late to kill me when the pirates came because he let is Mazra die at his my first roid and my egg ate Javs for breakfast at the other tnx to the Repar bay.  After that I out econ him and it was over. Less learned you can still win even if you have a really bad start if your enimy gives you one mistake and you have pirates on    .

As TEC:

Used scouts with demolition charges to destroy his structures.
Also fortified my HW with 3 turrets 1 repair increased to 6 turrets 2 repairs later.

In the mean time you are colonizy with your fleet toward the ice planets.

It was YOU     Man you had a good start if that was your smurf.

I've noticed this in Entrenchment, not sure how well it works in Vanilla, but the AI can easily be distracted by scouts. I sent in a couple scouts at the beginning on the game and attacked their constructors. This caused their capital ship to chase a single scout around the grav well. The AI would also build a lot of LF, but would was obsessed with my scout (it eventually died to SC). When it killed one of them, they started attacking another one, chasing it around the grav well. In fact, their cap ship/lf never left the HW grav well because I sent in a few more scouts (of course, once you send in your real fleet they lose interest in the scout). They sent a colony frigate to take a roid, but that got taken out by neutrals. So sent a few ships and took their roid myself.

The AI makes me laugh...

You can colonise the roids ASAP with one coloniser.

Attack with  scouts and LF as you tech for LRF.Main thing is just beat the fleet as much as you can. Send both scouts straight at his fabricator/builder units. When in AI grav well, kill factory and once your fleet starts to get bigger its easy.

Ive been playing this a bit against AI of late, as I encountered this as a 1v1 vs a guy who scout rushed me straight away. The trick though is getting out those colonisers straight away, and capping the roids. Then either sit nxt to your factories wtih a few defence funs around or in his system ideally next to his factories. If you can cap 1 or both roids whilst they are rushing at you a few minutes of income difference sorts it out.

Also, try buidling a 2nd factory straight away with 1 mil lab and do some research on damage/shields/regen.

The comp is dumb. It will chase one unit across a grav well and around and around and around.........

I tried this scenario as Advent and won by rushing SC carriers, even without any Repair Bays. Two Aerias + Progen + few Disciples did the job. It was a close call though.

tried a SB rush?

I tried SB rushing when I was testing to see how long it would take to build one.  The AI (w/ LFs) was surprisingly good at killing em.  They need support.

I found that normally I could build a Vasari SB in 8 minutes.  4 scouts, scuttle Cap Factory, Sell 2 M, Buy 1 C, 2 Mil labs, research SB, colonize roid, send a colonizer to HW to build SB when you had the cash.
If you skip colonizing the roid, you can have enuf money sooner.  Build by 5.5 min (about 2.5 to research alone).

A TEC SB by about 10 minutes.  (This was all with fast setting, and time measured according to the replay clock).

The AI is dumb. Just make sure you have your cap tanking the bulk of enemy forces while the construction of your starbase is ordered. The enemy will most likely continue to focus your cap and chase it around the gravwell while your SB is underway. If it's a Skirantra/Kortul/Marauder or any other fast/tough/healing cap, you'll likely have your cap still with half hit points when the starbase starts doing its thang.