another suggestion is that it maybe a place holder so idk we will see when the beta is out and its still in alpha

I'm really hoping they make it have more substance than that.

(From JUST the video), it looks like the only thing they're really adding is the ability to give missions to the computer, which, while nice, isn't a huge deal. You can already give them attack/defend targets, and that's good enough most of the time.

It also looks like you'll have to do research before making treaties, etc. That's dumb... it's like taking AWAY what we already have.

I'm hoping there's a lot more to it. I was planning on buying it because I figured, while it would probably be even smaller than Entrenchment, it would add something neat.

I'm utterly underwhelmed by that (bootleg) video. I hope for good news...

Yeah, but it should have been in a patch. It's not even worth $1 to me. If I want an AI to attack someone, as long as they're an ally, I just need to click on one of their planets, then say, "Set Ally Attack Target." Sure, I can't specify whether I want ships or civilian structures, but so? A quick hack to do the same thing might be to let you click an enemy planet, then do the same thing, for some monetary cost. Yeah, not as polished, but the infrastructure is already there.

And requesting resources from a computer, while doable, isn't particularly useful because I always have a stronger economy than they do.

I just don't see this affecting gameplay any more than superficially. It might make it so CPU won't give you missions until later in the game (which is bad), and it might allow you to have non-ally players attack a given target. Great.

But not really gamechanging, and even for a team of 11 working on other projects, I fail to see why this has taken so long. Unless the way they had coded Sins from the start made them have to rework a lot of code in order to do this, it really should have been a couple of switch statements, a few UI modifications, and then using existing infrastructure. Also, coding a bit of simple AI to decide whether the comp thought it was worth it. I'm not pulling this out of my ass, I'm a programmer. The only other way I can see this taking so long is if it sat on the backburner for a long time, because I could code something equivalent in C++ in an hour or two, it just wouldn't be part of Sins.

Details haven't really been announced, so things might change. But it's underwhelming any way you look at it. All of the features that have been added (AFAIK) are basically allowing you to do things the computer can do... after you research it.

The horse armor in Oblivion was more game-changing, although I admit the dev. time on that was clearly near zero.

Like others were saying, it seems like IC is going the way of CA with the Total War series.

And could IC not even spare one (1) guy 10 minutes to make a post on the official forums here giving the dedicated fans here some additional info about the expansion? And again, why no official video? And the news page on the front of the site still says nothing about the presentation at PAX. This is about as anti-climactic as possible. Does IC want its fans to give up on them? And what about news on the patch?

This is currently my favorite game I own. A little more info about its future would be great, on the official site. Or is IC copying Apple's method of secrecy?

execpt they arent... as Craig or Blair or whoever said, they've enjoying the weekend (given, thats over) and enjoying a holiday...

its now tuesday (given, in Australia, but still), if there is nothing by wednesday or thursday, thats simply not good enough

and like many people including myself have said: hire some guy fresh out of college for $50 an hour to write up some info about whats going on.

so you fork out maybe $150 (on the outside) you'll get it back in sales and then some.

and even if not, it sounds like all 11 members of the dev team were at PAX? would it have killed one or two of them to take an hour or two to put some info on the net?

Isn't it Stardocks responsibility for marketing, not Ironclads? I always thought publishers were supposed to take care of community communications and marketing. Could be a different agreement.

I disagree completely. The main complaint about the diplomacy system was the lack of a diplomacy system. If the focus point is on simply fixing a broken diplomacy rather than creating a diplomacy aspect of the game, then this will be a failed project

There really needs to be some alternate victory conditions, better ways to achieve those victories, and full on changes in diplomacy besides research. Hopefully this is only a tiny fraction of what has been done/is to be announced.

If not, Our New Hope will have to be sins 2 with a completely revamped game.

Good find Mooster.

Its funny listening to Brad's running commentry on Elemental during PAX you'd think he was describing Diplomacy features for SoaSE. There's a conspiracy theory to muse over whilst we wait for news, better than these over opinionated anti-IC ramblings.

@everyone else:  Yeah, I'd love to hear more, too.  However, it's entirely possible that the feature set has yet to be locked in for the micro expansion vs. the "something else" they're working on for Sins.  Even if it has been set, it likely hasn't been for long and testing may throw some wrenches into the works.  That means if they come out and introduce something that winds up not working out, it could be a bit disasterous.  Also, having an exclusive preview at a gaming convention might have been something used to bring people to PAX.  I'm sure we'll see something forthcoming in the near future. 

Oh, and Ironclad & Stardock are not remotely in the same time zone(s?) as Australia

You are free to disagree all you want, however it's not going to change the fact that people have always complained about not being able to give the AI missions.

It's like disagreeing that the sky is blue. You can do it, but people who've actually tracked the game's progress (like SD and IC) will just look at you real funny.

They seem to want to keep their company small, but it is killing (in a silence is killing us kind of way....) thier rabid fanbase.

My thing is this.

Stardock and IronClad have given us an excellent product.

Is it perfect? No
Find me one game that is perfect from beginning to end. You wont find one. Some do come close to perfection but only after years fo playtesting and patches (starcraft anyone).

The fact that we are arrogantly demanding a product that we have not even paid for is lame and childish. They never gave  us a strict calendar on anything. They may have given us hope but that does not give us the right to yell, scream, or threaten because it is not done in our terms. I am not saying we should not ask for more info but that we dont throw fits when we are not given all we want. We should respect what they have given us and enjoy what we have.  An excellent game, that is easily moddable, a great community and many a fun hour spent late night after a hard days work.

At least that is what I am planning on doing.

Well hey, I'm as excited as anyone about Diplomacy and can't wait to play it, but flaming Ironclad and Stardock for not revealing everything there is to reveal is shortsighted and it isn't going to help.

They aren't going to reveal things that aren't set in stone, as it opens them up to "But you promised so-and-so!" and they'd be forced to explain how they tried it and it didn't work and yadda yadda. They also aren't going to reveal stuff for marketing reasons. Like it or not, marketing is a reality and if they want exposure for Diplomacy they are going to have to give the news sites and mags their exclusives. For the "well why won't they do it already!" argument, see the first sentence in this paragraph.

In the end, last year we had no more information about Entrenchment than we do now about Diplomacy. We knew it'd have Starbases, mines, anti-structure cruisers, and a new tech tree. We didn't know how any of them were actually going to work. With Diplomacy, we know it'll have treaties and espionage, pirate remodeling, envoy ships, AI missions, and envoy ships. We also don't know much about how that's actually going to work.

And hey, Entrenchment turned out awesome. I don't understand why people are screaming bloody murder about it this year..

That Youtube vid was sweet to watch.  I know it didn't show much, but it's something.  Had to pause it to read the tooltips though.   It'd be cool if we could get pics of the models for at least one of the new ships from one of the races.  Like they did with TEC for Entrenchment.  Maybe do Vasari this time.

I can't wait for Diplomacy!!!  But I won't complain.