lol

Maybe we should elect you Draak.

Except such a one would polarize the voters that that one would be unelectable. Sad but true. Just study John McCain first presidential run in 2000. He had that attitude and he didn't even make it to nomination. In 2008 he backed off and he was able to reach nomination.

Unfortunately.

Meh, that's a hard one to determine. Against a Democrat dominated congress he may have fared worse then Obama and anything he would have tried that would have smacked of manning up may have been shot down.

You all just proved my point. Guns never changed a government.

It takes the will of the people to unite and say, enough is enough! (United, being the key word…Patriotism). Owning guns and preparing for an attack is ludicrous. It didn’t take a gun to come up with the illegal’s Law in Arizona or a machinegun to build the border fence. It only took a few people rallying and talking out loud to make it happen.  So again, the ideology of owning an arsenal in every Americans home is just insane. And Americans lose so many guns that those are crossing to Mexico and undermining the fight against cartels. Two simple ways for Americans to help the world; Stop wanting assault rifles (didn’t say handguns) and stop using drugs for fun! Achieve those two things and everyone’s quality of life will go up.

You must have not even read my April 12, 1861 comment, nor must you know anything about Asia or Africa.  Guns have changed governments there for decades.

No it didn't take a gun to come up with that law or build a fence, but it takes a gun to protect those laws.  If we didn't have guns, we'd all be communists because they did have guns.

"American's" don't lose guns.  Don't confuse the real issue.  Supply and demand.  Most US Citizens do not own a gun, nor have any will to own one.  Like I said, mine used to belong to my grandparents before they died.  They don't even work anymore.  I won't give them up simply because they used to belong to my grandparents not because I feel the need to be armed.  The issue is black market sales.  You have people in your country who want to buy them and do buy them.  Don't act all high and mighty just because you don't, you come off more as being a pompous ass then me when you try to act like that and that's not an easy thing to do...  The simple fact that some people do want guns and are willing to go through the trouble to get them is your issue to solve, not the US's issue to solve.  To buy a gun legally in the US you have to go through a background check.  Clearly these guns aren't being purchased legally.  So tough guy, how would a new law prevent someone from getting them illegally?  You may not know this, but the US makes just as many, if not more raids on Mexican drug cartels then Mexican officials do.  You're not alone in trying to fight the cartels off, stop acting like it.

This has to be the most amusing thing you've ever said because it proves you're an idiot just repeating slanted rhetoric.  Think about it.  Use your own head for just one second and think about it.  You blame the US for your gun problem because you believe that we're the sole place where they get their guns from, then you blame us for drugs which you guys produce.  Here's an idea.  We'll stop making guns if you stop making drugs.  Then everyone's quality of life will go up.

Stop blaming the US for your problems.  I've told you before...  We can end the drug cartels simply by calling in the troops which has been proposed time and time again but the biggest opponent to doing so is the Mexican Government.  You want to play the blame game repeatedly, here, try this on.  Every time we start talking about putting troops on the border or building a wall that actually manages to halt ingress rather then just slow it down, guess who bitches about it?  You Mexicans.  We manufacture guns here and who comes over to get them?  You Mexicans.  Drugs wouldn't be much of an issue here if it wasn't available.  Who makes it available here?  You Mexicans.  Crime near the border is much higher then crime in other areas of the US.  Who is responsible for the kidnappings and murders and the higher crime rates?  You Mexicans.

Stop coming into our country illegally and bringing your drugs and crime with you.  Don't try to argue it.  You know everything I've said is true, and I didn't need to listen to some one sided bullshit to figure it out.

Well, you still ignored our examples of when guns did make a difference.

Let's see though... Stop wanting assault rifles: Assault rifles seem to affect your crime, but not ours. And the majority of assault rifles in the world are cold war leftovers, but not ours.

Stop using drugs for fun: We already made them illegal, which goes as far as the government can do. On an individual basis, there are many of us who have never used drugs, so we can't really do much more to help. Of course, since man has been using drugs since a caveman discovered the Poppey seed, I don't think it's an American thing (see Amsterdam and Canada).

You are the ignorant fool stant123. All those Wars in Africa are still going on. There is no stable government! No war has ever brought a stable government. Look at Irak and Afganistan. Look at Israel. All those areas are armed thinking that shooting people will bring peace and stability. Wrong! You need to travel around the world before you open your ignorant mouth. Keep believing Rush and Gingrich as we all know they verify facts.

And to inform you, Mexico doesn't produce drugs they are the middle man (hence the turf war for trade routes, you stupid ass @Stant). The solution is that simple. Stop wanting assault guns and stop consuming drugs. Otherwise, the problem will never go away in both our countries. And I'm not saying eliminate guns or drugs, just stop. Americans are still trying to get more rights to bigger guns and legalize recreational drugs. Have you been to Amsterdam? is not as cool as you might think. There is a lot of petty crime and domestic violence.

And yes, these are American guns, not cold war left-overs. They are stolen from military bases (like Camp Pendelton in San Diego!). AR-15, Glocks, these are all sold in the US in trade shows by US citizen and smuggled to MExico where they sell for 3x the retail price (its big business!)

I have traveled the world you tool.  That's how I know you're full of yourself.  Now you want to change your story and claim stable government?  Go back to what you originally said,  Guns haven't changed governments.  We've proven to your dumb ass that guns have changed governments repeatedly.  As for war creating stable governments, let's see there's the US.  There's France.  There's the UK.  There's Germany.  There's Russia.  There's Poland.  There's Sweden.  There's Mexico.  There's China.  There's Thailand.  There's Cambodia.  There's India....  The list goes on and on and on...  Maybe YOU should get out into the world and see it for yourself before you start running your mouth off.

Mexico doesn't produce drugs?  And here it was YOU who said when you first started bitching about the US that you poor little Mexicans had to make them and you don't even use them.  Now you want to change your story to you just being the middleman?  Screw you.  You produce them just as much as you transport them.  Even if you didn't produce them.  Stop transporting them and you'll end the drug problem.  That's still all on you.  Not us.

Here again about the guns.  How does a law stop those that blatantly ignore it?  They get stolen from here.  How do you go from blaming the average citizen for fighting for their 2nd Amendment rights as for your reasons for guns being a problem in your country to openly admitting that they are stolen and/or smuggled?  How do you make that transition and still sit there, probably with a smug look on your dumb ass face, and think you have in any way swayed anyone to believe you?

Hey look guys, an American made gun!

Seriously, lets change the subject.

That was my point about the guns.  Just because one high profile bust last year had 80 AR-15's all of a sudden the US is to blame for everything.  Mind you the AK-47 is still the most prolific assault rifle out there in the world and it's insanely easy to obtain by anybody willing to blame the US for anything and is the most used and recovered weapon during these raids by far.

First off, I'm not here to convince anyone. I'm stating a fact. And I am not changing my argument. You are relating armed conflict with the creation of Nations which is the stupidest thing I've read. Nations are created when people unite and respect the Rule of Law not because of armed strengh. It would become a totalitarian government if you use armed force to rule the land. Democracy and the Law is what created all nations. And Mexico's problems are America's problem; even if you want to ignore that.

I will lower my self to your standards and spitout hate rethoric like you did in you previous post!

Who keep destabilizing other foregin nations to enhance their own? Americans

Who keep hiring iLegals and then bitch about them? Americans

Who keep complaining to other countries to stop smuggling drugs and still want more? Americans

Who keep letting criminal gangs into their country while militarizing their borders? Americans

What country is the most hipocritical all them all? USA

stant, you have the weakest argument and a double standard. You bitch because I blame the US for Mexico's problem and you blame Mexico for your stupid problems. Keep fighting for your precious 2nd amendment. Your country still has the highest gun related murder rate. Enjoy it!

Mmm...I don't think these are AK-47

 And yes, I think Stant123 knows that it was only One high profile bust and we all jumped at the US. Another ignorant statement from the all knowing stant123. Since you been everywhere, you also know that the US, has traced (and still is tracing) all confiscated guns in Mexico. And preliminary findings of where these guns originated from are...wait for it...you guessed it...US Gun Retailers. WOW, couldn't see that coming...

You want them and you are willing to transport. You have to take the blame in equal part.

Never said it was.

And I agree with Ryat. We might as well go on to talking about something else because the parties involved choose not to sway from their positions, thus undoing the point of conversation. In fact, I believe we left off with my making a BO joke and Ryat calling me 'sport'. It was then that control-SEVEN stepped in to start the subject. So, being the starter of said topic, I believe it is firmly upon him to cease. Stant, as we all well know, is largely a reactionary agent and thus will discontinue when others do so.

Edit:

 "Your country still has the highest gun related murder rate"

Colombia's is ten times greater, proportionately.

LOOK GUYS

MONKEYS!

I love monkeys!

... are they doing capoeira?

I never excused Mexico from any blame. I even said my country is mediocre bacuse we lack the drive to unite. All I wanted to convey is that the US needs to realize its policies affect my country. So, next time people vote (let's say, to legalize drugs)....realize the impact it will have on other nations and how it will come back to th US.

And yes, I'm done talking about this I just like ranting to release my frustration. Only that stant123 just triggers me with his inmature comments.

Done!

LOOK AT THE MONKEYS!!!

Pretty Monkeys

You're a moron.  I don't blame Mexico for ANY of the US's problems.  That whole bit was to show you how foolish and childish you're being by blaming the US for everything when it's your own country's issues to solve, not ours.  I made those statements to prove to you that I COULD blame you for a lot of our problems, but I don't.  Remember this comment: "You want to play the blame game repeatedly, here, try this on."  See, that's me only doing it to prove something to you.  I don't blame your country for anything.  Your issues are yours, my issues are mine.  That has always been my stance on the subject.  Instead I do my best to correct the flaws in your arguments and show you the errors of your way of thinking.  To which you do nothing but bitch and complain more...  I don't spit out hate rhetoric unless I'm provoked which you're doing a hell of a good job at doing.  I'm not the one coming here every few days and starting a new argument about how Mexico is screwed over by the US at every turn.  That would be you.  I don't start arguments, I finish them.

If you're not here to convince anyone, then why do you keep talking?  Why do you persist at attacking the US and it's people?  Sounds like you're trying to convince everyone to believe you over the truth.  You're stating facts, but you're not stating all of them.  You're misleading everyone into your way of thinking which is wrong as has been proven repeatedly.  I'm stating facts as well and just because you don't like them, you dismiss them as political propaganda.  Seriously.  How old are you?  You can't be an adult because an adult is wise enough to consider all of the facts having actually experienced life.  Oh that's right, you've already openly admitted you'd rather sit behind your computer then actually be around people in the world.  And you are changing your argument.  You said guns don't change governments and we proved to you that was not the case.  Then you all of a sudden start saying oh, I was saying no war has ever brought a stable government, which again, I've clearly demonstrated that you are absolutely wrong.  Now you want to say that you figure I'm talking about armed conflict creating nations?  What's wrong with you?

Try reading a history book, bud.  Human history must be completely nonsensical to you.

Nations are groups of people.  States are governments.  Nation States are governments made up of a certain group of people.  The Kurds are a Nation.  They have no state.  The US is a State that is formed from multiple nationalities.  Greece is a Nation State formed by Greeks.  I know it's confusing, and I don't expect a child to understand.

Countries are created by those people who are willing to fight for them.  Did King George just let the US exist because we all got together one day and said, nah, we want to be on our own now?  No.  He sent the Royal Army and the Royal Navy over here to kick some ass.  Was Mexico created because the Spanish decided they didn't like the land anymore?  No.  The Spanish got their asses handed to them.  Your own country was created by military force.  One of your big political parties the PRI held power until a decade ago.  How did they get that power?  They led a violent revolution in your own country.  How does this not register in your head?

This is the first time rule of the land by force has been brought up and it was brought up by you.  Changing your story again are we?  Where did this even come from?  Because I said park troops on the border or something?  That's not ruling the land, that's protecting the borders.  Huge difference.

Tell that to all of the dictators and Communist run governments in the world.  Tell that to all of the Warlords in Africa who are running their countries not the governments that are recognized by the United Nations.  Oh that's right, you like it behind your computer where you can talk shit quoting half truths rather then actually going out into the world and being a part of it.

I'm not ignoring it.  I've never once ignored it, I even detailed out steps that if you became leader of your country, you could do to fix your problems.  I live in Los Angeles.  I'm fully aware of Mexico's problems as most of my friends are Mexican and have many relatives still in Mexico.  I've been to Mexico myself countless times for various reasons ranging from vacation to bringing down canned goods and other food items.  Unlike you, I don't sit around bitching about my problems.  I actively take steps to fixing them.

Funny, I thought I was lowering myself to your standards since you refuse to accept blame or responsibility for your own problems and continue to blame everyone else.

Aside from Afghanistan and the US Civil War, name one conflict the US started?  I'll give you a hint.  None.  We've finished a whole lot of them though.  Who is always criticized for being too slow to respond to crisis around the world.  The US.  Who is always the front runner on any UN action?  The US.  Who is tasked with handing out aide to ailing nations throughout the world?  The US.  Who get's blamed for everyone's dirty laundry?  The US.  You seem to be forgetting that Communism spread rapidly throughout much of the world following WW2.  All of these destabilized regions that you're probably referring to are all regions where Communism spread to.  Look to the USSR to place your blame on that one.

Two different groups of people.  Those that obey the laws and those that don't.  Who's side are you on?  The one that participates in criminal activity and hires your people because they feel bad for them and want to pay them for their work at the risk of going to jail for it, or those that are lawful citizens and stand opposed to the practice?  It doesn't matter which one you pick because I'll slam you for either answer with well thought out and factual arguments.

That's true of any country not just ours.  Yours does that too.  You're really grasping at straws here trying to prove your case.  A small portion of the population participates in criminal activity and you blame the entire country for it.  I gotta say, sounds like hate speech to me.

See, now this is just completely untrue.  You claim to be just passing along the facts yet this one clearly isn't a fact.  Every time we say we want to militarize our border, Mexico objects.  Every time we staff ICE and Border Patrol with reservists since they're severely undermanned, Mexicans here and abroad object.  And let's be perfectly clear.  This staffing is not troops out on patrol, it's people sitting in communications centers and administration offices.  Yet, you all get upset by it.  It's like you want us to not be able to stop the problem.  We want to fix the problem, you want us to fix the problem, yet you won't let us do what needs to be done to fix it.

WOW.  If this isn't straight baseless hate mongering, I don't know what is.  What happened to the facts?  You really should try opening up a history book.  Maybe start off with your own country to make it easy on yourself.  Hypocrisy flows from your country just as easily as it flows from any other.  The US is NOT the most hypocritical of them all, there are plenty of others out there that have been around for much longer that have done far worse then anything the US has ever done in that arena.

Can't you just sqeez it!

its soo cute

Awww, adorable!

Holy crap, this place is going to explode with cuteness. Hell, I should find a pic of my gal's puppy. The right image would bring this place down upon our heads.